Are the Boomers cashing out? 6 6

[Aweandlorder]

17 hours ago, FC169 said:

OP is right. Maybe its the boomers, maybe not, but most all the SA run books under NM are on decline, and have been for some years now. 

GA is not infallible either. Non horror/bondage/superhero books are either stagnant or declining; especially under NM.  

Why? Dunno for sure. Can certainly speculate.  Boomers? Graded comics and the rise of the 9.8? Older folks dying off leaving few left to care about Donald Duck or DickTracy? I would surmise its a combination of quite a few factors ??‍♂️

 

Interesting topic ??

You are correct sir. I sell more moderns/copper now than silver. Hands down its not even a debate.

I think that is attributed to a shift in collecting, as well as collectors, not really boomers

Only 5 years ago I used to list a random silver age book.. non key.. and would get anywhere from $10+ for a VG+ 

Nowadays I wouldnt even get a bite on those books on a 1 dollar auction at times.. 

Its true that movies have took comic books to new heights but with them came a new breed of speculators, those who buy "keys" that the same group of new breed of speculators hype to.

That is why on a character like Black Panther for example you would see a HUGE increase with the more affordable copies of the character as opposed to the older ones. 

Someone mentioned BP #1 - perfect example.. Look at FF#52.. prices on that book have not increased significantly ever since the movie came out, in fact, an FF52 9.8 sold in 2016 for 55k, while another 9.8 sold recently for 51k

While a BP#1 (1977) 9.8, which is much more common, sold for DOUBLE of what it sold within that time frame (1000>500)

And thats not even mentioning the TONS of variants and modern BP books that outperform SA/BA BP books daily.

Also look at a book like SA X-Men #1; A recent 7.0 sold for $9900.00. While a NM98 9.9 sold around the same time for $11700.00.. To me, that is insane!

I wouldnt attribute any of these new trends to boomers, but more so to new collectors/speculators. 

 

[F For Fake]

50 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I can't wait. Lotsa smug "dealers" who know nothing of the history of the market, and think everything, from Fantasy #15 to She-Hulk #38, is worth $$$$ and you have to ask 5 times FMV for it.

They should enjoy the ride while it lasts. I amassed the vast bulk of my collection between 1997-2003, when you couldn't give comics away. 

I really wish I could have expanded my collection during those years. Those were the "lean years" for me, so I was doing good to keep up with my weekly pull list. I never wavered in that regard, but I definitely didn't have the foresight to invest in back issues like I should have.

[VintageComics]

34 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Also look at a book like SA X-Men #1; A recent 7.0 sold for $9900.00. While a NM98 9.9 sold around the same time for $11700.00.. To me, that is insane!

But an X-men #1 in 9.9 would sell for well over $5000K so comparing apples to oranges isn't really logical.

[VintageComics]

35 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

correct sir. I sell more moderns/copper now than silver. Hands down its not even a debate.

You are proving that everything is cyclical.

Most people, unless they do a little historical digging, have no historical awareness of values.

People think that pre-Robin tecs and Showcase #22 are the hottest books on the planet, but there was a time when you could go to a show and nobody really wanted those books. Not that nobody wanted them but nobody wanted to pay Overstreet prices for them so they sat.

Moderns were expensive. Then they weren't. Now they are again.

Gold and Silver were expensive. Then they weren't. Now they are again.

If you're around long enough (or read into the past) you'll see that it's all cyclical.

[Aweandlorder]

55 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

But an X-men #1 in 9.9 would sell for well over $5000K so comparing apples to oranges isn't really logical.

Not really. 10K is 10K any way you slice it.

Assuming both are of equal value: Would you prefer to invest 10k in a collectible with a history/legacy of X-Men #1 or 10k with the history of NM98?

 

 

[Von Cichlid]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

What do you think was being speculated on in the late 90s... other than how many (or, more accurately, few) years the industry had left before it died?

The speculators left with the crash and came back recently when the money and attention returned to the hobby. When the market shows signs of weakness, they'll once again abandon ship and hasten the downfall.

I kind of figured the late 90's to be a huge timeout for everyone involved.  I don't guess there were many speculators, but there probably weren't too many readers either.

I was in the Army at the time and the only thing I read was the Marvel Knights Punisher stuff.  Out of all the guys in my company, only me and a buddy read anything at all.  I remember getting a 5.0 129 for around $70 and a 7.5 181 for $200 at a shop in Greensboro, NC at the time.  I also remember buying for about 100 bucks the entire 82 Wolverine miniseries, all the Liefield New Mutants, and all the McFarlane Hulks from a guy at a flea market in Fayetteville.  There was also a coin shop that sold comics near Fort Bragg as well.  It was there I got my 300 and my 180.  

I just bought because being single in the Army meant I had a ton of disposable income and I remember thinking then how cheap the books were compared to the late 80's early 90's when I was reading the first time.  I would say about 2/3 of my collection was acquired during that time.  The latter 1/3 I've picked up in the last couple of years.  Luckily, I never sold my old comic collection like I did my Magic cards

I  remember getting back from Kosovo with all that deployment money saved up and buying that 181 and 129, and then buying a brand new laptop computer for $1500 from the PX.  Now, the $270 worth of comics are worth around $2700, and a new much more highly powered laptop I could get for $270.

[Aweandlorder]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

You are proving that everything is cyclical.

Most people, unless they do a little historical digging, have no historical awareness of values.

People think that pre-Robin tecs and Showcase #22 are the hottest books on the planet, but there was a time when you could go to a show and nobody really wanted those books. Not that nobody wanted them but nobody wanted to pay Overstreet prices for them so they sat.

Moderns were expensive. Then they weren't. Now they are again.

Gold and Silver were expensive. Then they weren't. Now they are again.

If you're around long enough (or read into the past) you'll see that it's all cyclical.

I dont remember a time where a modern would fetch over 5k in the same manner it does nowadays..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Danger-Girl-2-CGC-9-8-NM-RUBY-RED-Smoking-Gun-Variant-RARE-HTF-Image/232691269340?hash=item362d7afedc:g:jT0AAOSwKvJaoU-J

Thousands of dollars for a non key book, because it was graded high? that didnt happen in the 90s (obviously) 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rick-And-Morty-1-Justin-Roiland-Variant-CGC-9-8-April-15-1-50-HTF-SUPER-RARE-1D/182977389015?hash=item2a9a4d61d7:g:dRsAAOSwlptaPTwe

Thousands of dollars for a variant which many here will argue is shilled? That didnt happen in the 90s either

many many other examples that showcase how the modern market has taken off, mostly bcs of this new breed of collectors, but also bcs of new marketing and grading strategies. And thats not even factoring movie buzz/hype

 

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, Aweandlorder said:

I dont remember a time where a modern would fetch over 5k in the same manner it does nowadays..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Danger-Girl-2-CGC-9-8-NM-RUBY-RED-Smoking-Gun-Variant-RARE-HTF-Image/232691269340?hash=item362d7afedc:g:jT0AAOSwKvJaoU-J

Thousands of dollars for a non key book, because it was graded high? that didnt happen in the 90s (obviously) 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rick-And-Morty-1-Justin-Roiland-Variant-CGC-9-8-April-15-1-50-HTF-SUPER-RARE-1D/182977389015?hash=item2a9a4d61d7:g:dRsAAOSwlptaPTwe

Thousands of dollars for a variant which many here will argue is shilled? That didnt happen in the 90s either

many many other examples that showcase how the modern market has taken off, mostly bcs of this new breed of collectors, but also bcs of new marketing and grading strategies. And thats not even factoring movie buzz/hype

 

You're choosing your goal posts to fit your discussion now.

Back in the early 90's there were very few books that sold for $5K. Now there are literally 1000's of books that sell for $5K. A 'MINT' Hulk #181 was worth a couple of hundred dollars back then.

Valiants were being bought over older SA keys.

Advent of online auctions, certification and other factors (influx of speculation due to movie hype) are all going to change dynamics.

My point was that it's all cyclical and that very little about the market is absolute.

[Aweandlorder]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

You're choosing your goal posts to fit your discussion now.

Back in the early 90's there were very few books that sold for $5K. Now there are literally 1000's of books that sell for $5K. A 'MINT' Hulk #181 was worth a couple of hundred dollars back then.

Valiants were being bought over older SA keys.

Advent of online auctions, certification and other factors (influx of speculation due to movie hype) are all going to change dynamics.

My point was that it's all cyclical and that very little about the market is absolute.

A current market being healthy is just that. No need to reiterate that its healthy. My discussion was about how the market nowadays has shifted towards newer books as opposed to older (silver or golden) with the given example of BP. then I went on to outlay how current marketing strategy and the grading system has helped inflate modern books prices (Im not knocking it down, just stating the facts) Obviously you'd be hard pressed to find a 9.9 or a 10.0 in a non modern/copper book. So likely that has given modern books a boost. Is it justified? Not sure, well find one way or another

Im at work now, so dont have access to my older guide, but refresh my memory, how much was an IH181 going for in 1989? Im pretty sure it was close if not higher to a thousand? Again, not sure, but I clearly remember it jumping in price from 1987/88 by a few hundreds. At the time, you had moderns (now copper) books exploding in prices, but still not getting even remotely close to IH181.. With the exception of maybe TMNT 1 which was a 3-400 book. 

The average modern copper (for lack of better terms) was around $20-30 with a few $50-70 exceptions. The 90s did change all that but before you even noticed it everything went to doom and gloom. 

We are currently experiencing a renaissance with comics on all levels. All which may or may not explode tomorrow. But so far it is being a very healthy ride for those who are cashing in. Boomers or not

[ComicConnoisseur]

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

You are correct sir. I sell more moderns/copper now than silver. Hands down its not even a debate.

Might be the rule of 25-35 coming into play? 

An example is most stuff from 1950s to 1970s like TV Memorabila is at all time lows compared to 1980s to 1990s TV Memorabilia stuff which is starting to really take off.

So stuff like Jurassic Park,X-Files,Harry Potter,Street Fighter,Power Rangers and Pokemon are gaining in interest, while stuff like Man from Uncle,Wild Wild West,Land of The Giants,Gunsmoke, Captain Action and Dark Shadows stuff is basically slow.

Edited March 15, 2018 by ComicConnoisseur

[Aweandlorder]

4 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Might be the rule of 25-35 coming into play? 

An example os most stuff from 1950s to 1970s like TV Memorabila is at all time lows compared to 1980s to 1990s Memorabilia stuff which is starting to take off.

So stuff like Jurassic Park,X-Files,Harry Potter,Street Fighter,Power Ranger and Pokemon are gaining in interest, while stuff like Man from Uncle,Wild Wild West,Land of The Giants,Gunsmoke and Dark Shadows stuff is basically slow,

Certainly a speculative factor. Is it its driving force? questionable 

[reddwarf666222]

15 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Might be the rule of 25-35 coming into play? 

An example is most stuff from 1950s to 1970s like TV Memorabila is at all time lows compared to 1980s to 1990s TV Memorabilia stuff which is starting to really take off.

So stuff like Jurassic Park,X-Files,Harry Potter,Street Fighter,Power Rangers and Pokemon are gaining in interest, while stuff like Man from Uncle,Wild Wild West,Land of The Giants,Gunsmoke, Captain Action and Dark Shadows stuff is basically slow,

Nah the people with disposable income are my age wanting to reclaim their childhood which is the 80s and 90s. While the people who were into the memorabilia from the 50s to early 70s are now entering a time in their life to where they are getting close to retirement, retired, or have a lot of kids with a lot less income to spend. Therefore they may be selling their collections at this time too for money.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2017 at 3:47 PM, Buzzetta said:

I believe that we are in the process of a market saturation as everyone is trying to hoard yet cash in on books with the movie craze.  There seems to be a demand.

However... I will most likely start to sell most everything off when I retire in 4,603 days. 

#4490 to go...

[Lazyboy]

25 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Im at work now, so dont have access to my older guide, but refresh my memory, how much was an IH181 going for in 1989? Im pretty sure it was close if not higher to a thousand? Again, not sure, but I clearly remember it jumping in price from 1987/88 by a few hundreds.

Mid-late 1988, Mile High was advertising them for $35 (guaranteed Fine).

Mid 1990 Crestohl/Ross were advertising Mint for $300 (F/VF $150).

[Ryan.]

This place needs a The Comics Industry is Dying subforum.

[FSF]

6 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

This place needs a The Comics Industry is Dying subforum.

But then the Comics General forum would be even more dead.

 

 

[october]

2 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

A current market being healthy is just that. No need to reiterate that its healthy. My discussion was about how the market nowadays has shifted towards newer books as opposed to older (silver or golden) with the given example of BP. 

I'm guessing you don't own or sell too many golden age books. That end of the market has been absolutely insane over the past two years. Anything quality has probably increased an average of two to four times over the past 12 months. It's the hottest I have EVER seen the golden age market. It's borderline stupid.

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Im at work now, so dont have access to my older guide, but refresh my memory, how much was an IH181 going for in 1989? Im pretty sure it was close if not higher to a thousand? Again, not sure, but I clearly remember it jumping in price from 1987/88 by a few hundreds.

Mid-late 1988, Mile High was advertising them for $35 (guaranteed Fine).

Mid 1990 Crestohl/Ross were advertising Mint for $300 (F/VF $150).

I paid around $250 for mine right around 1990 or so.

[WolverineX]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Mid-late 1988, Mile High was advertising them for $35 (guaranteed Fine).

Mid 1990 Crestohl/Ross were advertising Mint for $300 (F/VF $150).

I wonder how much that is when accounting for inflation

[Aweandlorder]

Yes that is correct IH181 was 50$ in 88 and 250$ the next year. I remember it went drastically higher within a year or 2 just didn't remember by how much.