Need Some Advice on Copper Submissions to CGC 0

[sfcityduck]

I submitted a few books I bought when I was an active buyer of new comics in the 70s and 80s to cgc to get a sense of how my collection would grade out.  (I also submitted a high grade GA book, a one of a kind modern with a bit of historical import, and the first comic appearance of a much beloved character soon to be in a new motion picture in an attempt to get the "highest graded" which it did - but those are not the topic of this post.)   The 80s books I picked were duplicates or books that were not central to my collection, but might have some resale value to justify the experiment.  I picked books I thought were fairly typical condition for the collection.  I submitted some to be graded in their "natural state" and some to be cleaned and pressed.  My raw books just got graded.  I'm happy, but I've got some questions:

My later 80s test cases came back 9.8 white.  But, some of those were b&w, like a Dark Horse Presents 24 which I assume might be more likely to get higher grades, right?  

An early 80s test case, a Spiderwoman 37 (came out in 1981 when I was 14 or 15), came out on the low end of the scale as a 9.2 White.  The grader's notes say:  "Light bends to cover.  Small, light bend, to back cover."  Are these the kind of flaws which pressing takes care of?  I haven't got back any of the books I submitted to be pressed and cleaned, so that part of my experiment isn't done yet.  I am thinking about resubmitting this to test the impact a press can have - what do you guys think?

Finally, is there a rule of thumb on whether you should submit a book to CGC and whether you should press and clean it?  I am talking for re-sale.  While, I will probably keep the core of the collection of books I bought back then raw, I have plenty of books I wouldn't mind passing on to collectors who might want them.  These include unread runs, like my Byrne FF run, that based on my test submissions could all be 9.8 White without pressing.   But, is that the kind of run which really isn't worth submitting unless it's going to be 9.8 White?  If so, is it worth it to submit for a press to ensure the grade?  Or by that point is it just too much effort and waiting time for a few bucks of return?

I know I have a lot of questions, but I'm new to submitting to CGC, and I'm trying to figure out the ropes.   I am not reading a lot of these 80s comics so I'm thinking I ought to just send them on their way.  But, my personality is such I can't just give away / fire sale my comics.  So, any helpful answers are appreciated.

 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

If you bought graders notes... And it says light bends as long as it doesn't say crease, or foxing or Bends that break color... Pressing should fix those...

I'm not familiar with the eighties Comics even though I grew up then... FF might not be worth it until later on, for example bronze issues in high grade have become a thing... Perhaps they will catch fire with copper era as well but no promises...

In my opinion any keys perhaps should be pressed to secure grade... But it does seem to be a lot of trouble and I usually don't do it

It all depends on what you have time for and what you feel comfortable spending. That's the best I can do hopefully that was some help

 

[1Cool]

Slabbing 80s books that are not key issues is always tough which is why there usually is not a lot of copies on the census.  If you have a book that is $60 in 9.8 and $35 in 9.6 then it really only makes sense to get the book graded if its a 9.8 because the cost of grading will eat up most of the $35 for a 9.6.  Prescreening is great for 80s books since you get the 9.8s graded but the $5 fee for rejects does add up if you get a bunch sent back.  Books like the Dark Horse 24 are a good book to get graded and possibly pressed since a 9.8 is a high price book and 9.6s are even worth a bit.  The best thing is to check out the GPA prices for books and figure out what books are worth your time and effort after you subtract off the grading and possible pressing cost.  Good luck!

Edited October 12, 2017 by 1Cool

[sfcityduck]

3 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Slabbing 80s books that are not key issues is always tough which is why there usually is not a lot of copies on the census.  If you have a book that is $60 in 9.8 and $35 in 9.6 then it really only makes sense to get the book graded if its a 9.8 because the cost of grading will eat up most of the $35 for a 9.6.  Prescreening is great for 80s books since you get the 9.8s graded but the $5 fee for rejects does add up if you get a bunch sent back.  Books like the Dark Horse 24 are a good book to get graded and possibly pressed since a 9.8 is a high price book and 9.6s are even worth a bit.  The best thing is to check out the GPA prices for books and figure out what books are worth your time and effort after you subtract off the grading and possible pressing cost.  Good luck!

I have looked at GPA in the past for GA, and that's probably great advice.  I'm going to have to study the census too, I guess.  The personal rule of thumb I'm leaning towards is "don't submit a book unless you can get three times the submission (and pressing if you do it) fee."  Because once you factor in the other expenses it just doesn't seem worth it.  Anyone have a rule of thumb like that? 

For pressing, I'm now realizing I'm going to have to look at these books a lot closer and form an opinion if there are "pressable defects" which would keep a book less than a 9.8.

[1Cool]

13 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I have looked at GPA in the past for GA, and that's probably great advice.  I'm going to have to study the census too, I guess.  The personal rule of thumb I'm leaning towards is "don't submit a book unless you can get three times the submission (and pressing if you do it) fee."  Because once you factor in the other expenses it just doesn't seem worth it.  Anyone have a rule of thumb like that? 

For pressing, I'm now realizing I'm going to have to look at these books a lot closer and form an opinion if there are "pressable defects" which would keep a book less than a 9.8.

I've heard some people say "I don't grade anything less then $100 since grading cost $25 with shipping".  I personally take it book by book.  If a book sells for $10 in NM and I have a 50/50 shot at getting a 9.8 or 9.6 then I don't mind going for the $65 9.8 and $40 in 9.6 books since with bulk submissions the grading cost me about $20.  So I make decent with a 9.8 and still make $10 over raw prices with a 9.6.  I don't think there is a set rule for most people since it all comes down to risk vs reward.

[SteppinRazor]

Despite the fact that grading is a numerical scale designed to quantify condition, there is subjectivity to grading that renders the concept of test cases moot.  Personally third party grading has become evident to me as a delusional market stabilization metric.

Costs of submitting can change based on how you submit (tiers, prescreening, etc.), so it's difficult to have a set number to hit.  Coppers and Moderns tend to need 9.8s, which tend to be sufficiently questionable as to behoove one using the presecreen feature.

Regarding the press, I'll share with you my own experience with my UXM #266.  Posted in the PGM forum, consensus for mine was 9.2, with a press generally thought to bring at least a 9.4.  There was a roughly $50 difference maybe between raw and a 9.4 graded copy, ebay sold listings as reference.  So mailing it to joeypost (call it $10), paying for the press (say $25), paying for it to be shipped back ($10), then shipping it to CGC ($10+insurance), paying for it to be graded ($27), and then shipped back to me ($10+insurance).  No thanks. Sold it raw.  If you pay for a press and don't get a 9.8, I think it should be at least $100 book at 9.6.  Otherwise you're gonna eat it.  That said, if you can hit a 9.8 without a press, it doesn't need to be a $100 book at 9.8 to make money, as you are saving yourself roughly $45.

I sent two pre screen boxes, 25 books each in order to get a handle on overall quality of what I have. I sent my most perfect, some I thought could be 9.8s, and a few I figured were definitely not 9.8, and ought to get kicked back. The result of sending in 50 books is I have no idea.  I pre screened at 9.6.  I got back books as rejects that had never been opened, let alone read.  Bought, bagged, put away, razor corners, no tics, nothing. I sent one book that I removed, wearing gloves, from the polybag before sending, checking it for the bag-spine dent that is common.  I sent multiples of the same books, in the same condition, that lived one right next to the other since I bought them, that came back with different grades.  I got back 9.6s that are in better condition than books I got back at 9.8.  I can find flaws in 9.8s and can't find flaws in 9.6s.  My guess is they record the index # to avoid it, but I would bet otherwise, sending back the rejects would get me a few more slabbed books, without doing anything to improve the grade, simply by catching a different grader or a grader in a better mood.

If you're going to grade a lot of books, definitely pre-screen, and assume a roughly 70% success rate if you think you're pretty good at grading.

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

Despite the fact that grading is a numerical scale designed to quantify condition, there is subjectivity to grading that renders the concept of test cases moot.  Personally third party grading has become evident to me as a delusional market stabilization metric.

Costs of submitting can change based on how you submit (tiers, prescreening, etc.), so it's difficult to have a set number to hit.  Coppers and Moderns tend to need 9.8s, which tend to be sufficiently questionable as to behoove one using the presecreen feature.

Regarding the press, I'll share with you my own experience with my UXM #266.  Posted in the PGM forum, consensus for mine was 9.2, with a press generally thought to bring at least a 9.4.  There was a roughly $50 difference maybe between raw and a 9.4 graded copy, ebay sold listings as reference.  So mailing it to joeypost (call it $10), paying for the press (say $25), paying for it to be shipped back ($10), then shipping it to CGC ($10+insurance), paying for it to be graded ($27), and then shipped back to me ($10+insurance).  No thanks. Sold it raw.  If you pay for a press and don't get a 9.8, I think it should be at least $100 book at 9.6.  Otherwise you're gonna eat it.  That said, if you can hit a 9.8 without a press, it doesn't need to be a $100 book at 9.8 to make money, as you are saving yourself roughly $45.

I sent two pre screen boxes, 25 books each in order to get a handle on overall quality of what I have. I sent my most perfect, some I thought could be 9.8s, and a few I figured were definitely not 9.8, and ought to get kicked back. The result of sending in 50 books is I have no idea.  I pre screened at 9.6.  I got back books as rejects that had never been opened, let alone read.  Bought, bagged, put away, razor corners, no tics, nothing. I sent one book that I removed, wearing gloves, from the polybag before sending, checking it for the bag-spine dent that is common.  I sent multiples of the same books, in the same condition, that lived one right next to the other since I bought them, that came back with different grades.  I got back 9.6s that are in better condition than books I got back at 9.8.  I can find flaws in 9.8s and can't find flaws in 9.6s.  My guess is they record the index # to avoid it, but I would bet otherwise, sending back the rejects would get me a few more slabbed books, without doing anything to improve the grade, simply by catching a different grader or a grader in a better mood.

If you're going to grade a lot of books, definitely pre-screen, and assume a roughly 70% success rate if you think you're pretty good at grading.

Thanks for the views.  I think I'm lousy at grading.  But, I think I was pretty good at storing my books.  So far, my books have graded back with a high rate of 9.8 White.  I'm curious to see what my pressing tests come back as.  And I've got a GA book submitted that I'm dying to get back.