Incredible Hulk #181 - is it *that* red-hot? 17 17

[sfcityduck]

15 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

It's hard for me to understand how you don't understand a basic concept like context.

What context do you think I'm missing?  I've already stated that I don't think 180 will ever be valued the way 181 is.  I'm not talking about the value of the comics, I'm talking about the true significance of that page.

[MGsimba77]

Given a choice I'd go with the 180 last page OA due to the historical significanse. The cover of 181 is probably burned into my pupils at this point

[dinesh_s]

7 hours ago, Superman2006 said:

  What do you think the cover would sell for at auction, or do you prefer not to speculate since you don't want to tip your hand?

I have no idea if it even exists let alone if it's for sale so not worried about tipping my hand. Not sure what it would sell but I'd be surprised if it didn't go for $500k-1m

[alexgross.com]

meanwhile, every copy put up for sale here on the boards sits around. are the sellers overpricing here, or is this not the right audience, or something else? i know these boards lean more heavily towards GA collectors but still...

its hard for me to believe its a good idea to buy when something is so hot. buy low, sell high. it’ll never be low, i know. but it may get lower than it is right now. seems like a decent chance prices will dip at some point later in the year. summer is often a hot time for the market too, no pun intended. 

[Big Daddy]

You might get a slight correction in price, but as more fans of wolverine discover this book the higher the demand. With the advent of movies and conventions you're getting more and more people wanting key books like this. And seeing as the book is 44 yrs old and they're not making anymore it's a supply and demand item. People can say the books aren't worth it but I personally think this book has been under valued for a long time. He's one of the top five recognized comic characters there is. 

[Chillax23]

7 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

meanwhile, every copy put up for sale here on the boards sits around. are the sellers overpricing here, or is this not the right audience, or something else? i know these boards lean more heavily towards GA collectors but still...

its hard for me to believe its a good idea to buy when something is so hot. buy low, sell high. it’ll never be low, i know. but it may get lower than it is right now. seems like a decent chance prices will dip at some point later in the year. summer is often a hot time for the market too, no pun intended. 

I don’t think Boardies are willing to pay asking prices that are $500 over last sold on GPA (sometimes more) plus when you look at GPA I think boardies realize those prices include selling fees - so why should a vendor here get over GPA and incur no fees on such a hot book ..... maybe I am wrong but I think that is why they sit here. 

I also think boardies have seen this roller coaster before and don’t experience the same sense of FOMO that others do. The book will level off and stabilize and I think there is a lot of speculation and price manipulation going on tbh - for example a 7.0 had settled somewhere in the $2900-3100 range a couple weeks ago (based on 5-6 sales) then all of a sudden a $4,000 sale for a 7.0 - why would that happen, why wouldn’t someone wait for the next copy to go on sale tomorrow (since are thousands of them)? I don’t think that sale is legit personally but every seller will now price their 7.0 above it ...... hmmmmm. 

Maybe I am a pessimist  

EDIT: For the record, I do think every seller can list a book for whatever they want and I don't blame a seller listing high on this book especially with the crazy prices that are being paid for this book - it is a tough book to price with the current volatility 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Chillax23

[namisgr]

Compared to popular selling venues like the Bay, CLink, Heritage, and the major dealers, the boards sales threads are viewed by a much, much smaller number of eyeballs.  As with many other books, I first offered my slabbed copy of Hulk #181 bought off the rack here on the boards (several years ago now), then when it didn't move sold it on Comiclink for 15% more than the board asking price.  So, I don't think the lack of a board sale speaks very much to the current state of the market for this or any other book.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by namisgr

[lou_fine]

On 8/21/2018 at 7:11 PM, Callaway29 said:

On 8/21/2018 at 3:03 PM, valiantman said:

2016 averages for CGC 8.5:  #181 = $2,350, #180 = $390: The #181 was 6 times the #180 price.

2017 averages for CGC 8.5:  #181 = $2,526, #180 = $405: The #181 was 6.2 times the #180 price.

90 day averages for CGC 8.5: #181 = $4,296, #180 = $648: The #181 is 6.6 times the #180 price.

If the earlier multiplier between #180 and #181 is going to hold around 6 to 6.2, then the #180 prices are currently a little low. 

 

My brain likes your brain

Speaking of GPA prices, I imagine they would include all of the books sold using the BIN sales format.

From my point of view, incorporating this sales data point kind of puts an upward bias on the valuations since they don't factor in all of the books that couldn't find a buyer either at that same price or just a little bit lower.  Especially since some of these BIN completed sales might have taken months before the seller was able to luck into a buyer that was willing to meet his offer price.

As such, I feel that the true auction bidding format sales results tends to provide much more accurate information as opposed to using eBay BIN sales results.  

[MGsimba77]

10 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

I also think boardies have seen this roller coaster before and don’t experience the same sense of FOMO that others do. The book will level off and stabilize and I think there is a lot of speculation and price manipulation going on tbh - for example a 7.0 had settled somewhere in the $2900-3100 range a couple weeks ago (based on 5-6 sales) then all of a sudden a $4,000 sale for a 7.0 - why would that happen, why wouldn’t someone wait for the next copy to go on sale tomorrow (since are thousands of them)? I don’t think that sale is legit personally but every seller will now price their 7.0 above it ...... hmmmmm. 

Good point about board members being more experienced in comics than the typical eBay buyer. But I think it's a much smaller marketplace & a potential buyer here would probably be bothered by the asking prices knowing the seller is likely only paying the PayPal fee.

I think the big X factor here is what Disney has in store for the character down the road. I keep coming back to this point but if the MCU can find the right actor and put him in a realistic looking wolverine costume it'll be a powerful visual! If they can pull that off there's no telling what the impact would be on 181 , X-Men books, etc! What if they decide to do some sort of recreation of IH 181or 340 on the big screen?! The upside potential down the road is greater than the downside in my view. Of course there can be a temporary correction near term but it's good bet long term 

[Howling Mad]

4 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Good point about board members being more experienced in comics than the typical eBay buyer. But I think it's a much smaller marketplace & a potential buyer here would probably be bothered by the asking prices knowing the seller is likely only paying the PayPal fee.

I think the big X factor here is what Disney has in store for the character down the road. I keep coming back to this point but if the MCU can find the right actor and put him in a realistic looking wolverine costume it'll be a powerful visual! If they can pull that off there's no telling what the impact would be on 181 , X-Men books, etc! What if they decide to do some sort of recreation of IH 181or 340 on the big screen?! The upside potential down the road is greater than the downside in my view. Of course there can be a temporary correction near term but it's good bet long term 

Wolverine has over saturated the market for decades. The cinema for nearly two. How much impact can they have at this point?

Long time collectors either have a book or they don't, new movies aren't going to sway that much. New collectors, or the vast, vast majority of them, will be priced out of anything higher-grade. The average comic book collector isn't buying $1K+ books.

Could Disney completely reboot the entire Marvel universe? Yup, they absolutely could. Will they? Who knows.

[MGsimba77]

18 minutes ago, Howling Mad said:

Wolverine has over saturated the market for decades. The cinema for nearly two. How much impact can they have at this point?

Long time collectors either have a book or they don't, new movies aren't going to sway that much. New collectors, or the vast, vast majority of them, will be priced out of anything higher-grade. The average comic book collector isn't buying $1K+ books.

Could Disney completely reboot the entire Marvel universe? Yup, they absolutely could. Will they? Who knows.

Maybe there's a bit of a difference between being depicted as wolverine by the minor league 20th century Fox wearing a "wife beater" & the cream of the crop MCU?

I don't know perhaps if they decided to do something about James Howlett's history & the weapon X program involving his altercation with Wendigo & Hulk it may have a teeny tiny bit of an impact?... No? ??? Maybe a little? 

[ADAMANTIUM]

31 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

Maybe there's a bit of a difference between being depicted as wolverine by the minor league 20th century Fox wearing a "wife beater" & the cream of the crop MCU?

I don't know perhaps if they decided to do something about James Howlett's history & the weapon X program involving his altercation with Wendigo & Hulk it may have a teeny tiny bit of an impact?... No?  Maybe a little? 

Then there is the new generations that need it retold, I'm willing to bet that more people know Spider-Man was bitten by a spider than know the intricacies of wolverine, weapon x etc. 

Having said that, I wouldn't rush the story, as once done..... I don't know how they can enlarge the story to where it wouldn't be retold too many times. They touched on it with "Stryker" in the movies, left me wanting more, which is always good.

But ya, I think there are ways to promote wolverine in the future

How it happens will be interesting, and people will all have different ideas. No Worries that's a good thing. 

If I can still get excited about something Batman or Spider-Man, people will get a kick out the Wolverine!

 

[GMahon]

With how popular this book is, and will continue to be. I have a high grade copy that I've had for 30 years, maybe paid 100 or less. I bought another 181 with the mark jewelers insert 4.0 cgc paid 2300.  I've seen thousands of 181's on eBay, only 3 with the insert. I'm hoping that years from now that they get like the 35 cent Star Wars 1, been buying all the keys that I can find with the insert in hopes of rarity and increasing demand, but the 181 will be the one to get

[kimik]

19 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

I don’t think Boardies are willing to pay asking prices that are $500 over last sold on GPA (sometimes more) plus when you look at GPA I think boardies realize those prices include selling fees - so why should a vendor here get over GPA and incur no fees on such a hot book ..... maybe I am wrong but I think that is why they sit here. 

I also think boardies have seen this roller coaster before and don’t experience the same sense of FOMO that others do. The book will level off and stabilize and I think there is a lot of speculation and price manipulation going on tbh - for example a 7.0 had settled somewhere in the $2900-3100 range a couple weeks ago (based on 5-6 sales) then all of a sudden a $4,000 sale for a 7.0 - why would that happen, why wouldn’t someone wait for the next copy to go on sale tomorrow (since are thousands of them)? I don’t think that sale is legit personally but every seller will now price their 7.0 above it ...... hmmmmm. 

Maybe I am a pessimist  

EDIT: For the record, I do think every seller can list a book for whatever they want and I don't blame a seller listing high on this book especially with the crazy prices that are being paid for this book - it is a tough book to price with the current volatility 

The issue with selling on the boards is this - for the most part, everyone here is well aware of the market and is looking to buy with an average discount of 10% off of GPA just like they bid on Clink/CConnect/HA/etc. We are also well aware of the fees that can be avoided by selling on the boards and make offers accordingly. On books like IH 181 that are in a run up, sellers are less willing to discount the prices here. As a result, the books go unsold until GPA catches up with them a month later.........by which time the seller has already moved them to another venue for the FMV or just pulls it off the market.

Edited August 27, 2018 by kimik

[MGsimba77]

3 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Then there is the new generations that need it retold, I'm willing to bet that more people know Spider-Man was bitten by a spider than know the intricacies of wolverine, weapon x etc. 

Having said that, I wouldn't rush the story, as once done..... I don't know how they can enlarge the story to where it wouldn't be retold too many times. They touched on it with "Stryker" in the movies, left me wanting more, which is always good.

But ya, I think there are ways to promote wolverine in the future

How it happens will be interesting, and people will all have different ideas. No Worries that's a good thing. 

If I can still get excited about something Batman or Spider-Man, people will get a kick out the Wolverine!

 

Yeah I believe Stryker was in X2 and Origins. He's an X-Men antagonist so it's a bit down the road.

I'm not sure they'd have to enlarge the story as there's enough material in the weapon x story to last well over a couple of hours if they wanted to go there. It involves a number of characters including Sabretooth, etc...

I'd imagine there's plenty of fertile ground there with a possible wolverine origin movie. I don't think too many casual fans especially younger generation have been exposed to how the character came to be. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by MGsimba77

[sfcityduck]

8 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Yeah I believe Stryker was in X2 and Origins. He's an X-Men antagonist so it's a bit down the road.

I'm not sure they'd have to enlarge the story as there's enough material in the weapon x story to last well over a couple of hours if they wanted to go there. It involves a number of characters including Sabretooth, etc...

I'd imagine there's plenty of fertile ground there with a possible wolverine origin movie. I don't think too many casual fans especially younger generation have been exposed to how the character came to be. 

X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)  is only nine years old.  

[MGsimba77]

3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)  is only nine years old.  

Oh gee... I guess I missed the part where he actually resembles wolverine & encounters Hulk. My point was something more along the lines of what happened in the actual comics done the right way by the MCU not Fox.

By the time MCU gets around to doing anything like this if ever it'll be way more than 9 years since origins came out. BTW someone in their early 20's may not have even heard about "origins". But hey thanks anyway for the information ...

Edited August 27, 2018 by MGsimba77

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

Oh gee... I guess I missed the part where he actually resembles wolverine & encounters Hulk. My point was something more along the lines of what happened in the actual comics done the right way by the MCU not Fox.

 

I was not commenting on a Wolverine v. Hulk fight (which excites me not at all), but this:  I'd imagine there's plenty of fertile ground there with a possible wolverine origin movie. I don't think too many casual fans especially younger generation have been exposed to how the character came to be.

With repeats, pay per view, etc., and how popular the character is, my assumption is that any fans of Wolverine have seen the movies.  

Personally, my favorite Marvel movie was Spiderman (2002).  

[MGsimba77]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

With repeats, pay per view, etc., and how popular the character is, my assumption is that any fans of Wolverine have seen the movies.

What about the potential audience that aren't fans yet? The memory of those movies will fade.

Besides, that movie had "please reboot me" written all over it! 

[MGsimba77]

This 9.4 that supposedly auctioned for 9600 has been relisted. It's the same book with the same certification #. Seems weird! The seller has mostly good feedback. Wonder what's going on???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-CGC-9-4-NM-OW-W-1st-Full-Appearance-Of-Wolverine-NR-/192630684104