If great story/art determined value: What books would be keys? 2 2

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

From my understanding Gabriele Dell’Otto is just a covers artist and does no inside work.

He is a very talented cover artist though. 

Frank Miller and that rest of the gang I mentioned were more than just doing covers.

So yeah that is a difference I guess.

He has done some inside work... I found a couple languishing in the dollar bins.... they are less talked about. I don't really know why, but it's the same with Campbell and Hughes too. 

[Tony D]

Amazing Spider-Man #248 - The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man.

 

[Aweandlorder]

8 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

I thought a lot of the exaggerated figure work from that period resembled early (mid 80s) Arthur Adams’ style,  such as in his Longshot mini-series.

 

Correct. AAdams HEAVILY influenced McFarlane, JLee, Liefeld among others. In the 80s everyone imitated him. The grotesque proportions, huge grins, fine detailed work and textures. Everything belonged to Adams.

But by 1992 Adams' imitators were so much more popular than him that his recognition among these giants has started to slowly fade away.

If it wasnt for this book, there would not be an ASM 300:

[Ken Aldred]

 

I don’t recall ever reading that annual, even though I was a very avid fan of Adams at the time and thought I’d bought pretty much everything he'd worked on.  I’m sure I would’ve noticed the similarity. 

I’ll definitely have a very belated look at that one.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[Gatsby77]

13 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

mcFarlane was not really imitated

Umm...except that there were a handful of artists trying damn-hard to imitate McFarlane.

Stephen Platt, I think, was the most obvious example. Moon Knight 55 took off precisely because it featured "a new artist who drew like McFarlane" -- and among his early covers -- Moon Knight 55-57, Prophet # 4 variant and Prophet # 5 may as well have been drawn by McFarlane.

Capullo's another one -- there's a reason he was the first to follow McFarlane on Spawn -- he'd been mentored and trained up by him.

I'd even argue that Liefeld was heavily influenced by McFarlane, who both inked and co-penciled some of the early Liefeld New Mutants issues.

[jools&jim]

22 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

That's one that definitely polarises.

Some like the art there, but I think it looks rather sloppy and scratchy. The tipping point for me, when I lost interest in his work.

I'm reading Miller's Xerxes right now...he's still a grand master of the form...

[thunsicker]

44 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Umm...except that there were a handful of artists trying damn-hard to imitate McFarlane.

Stephen Platt, I think, was the most obvious example. Moon Knight 55 took off precisely because it featured "a new artist who drew like McFarlane" -- and among his early covers -- Moon Knight 55-57, Prophet # 4 variant and Prophet # 5 may as well have been drawn by McFarlane.

Capullo's another one -- there's a reason he was the first to follow McFarlane on Spawn -- he'd been mentored and trained up by him.

I'd even argue that Liefeld was heavily influenced by McFarlane, who both inked and co-penciled some of the early Liefeld New Mutants issues.

I think the argument is not that there weren't people imitating McFarlane, simply that since McFarlane was imitating Arthur Adams the correct attribution is that they were all imitating Arthur Adams.

[Aweandlorder]

23 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

 

I don’t recall ever reading that annual, even though I was a very avid fan of Adams at the time and thought I’d bought pretty much everything he'd worked on.  I’m sure I would’ve noticed the similarity. 

I’ll definitely have a very belated look at that one.

McFarlane swiped the heck out of this book in his ASM run. 

Another incredible Adams book that doesnt get much attention is Cloak & Dagger #9

[Martin Sinescu]

4 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Right now the comic book industry needs major stars like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore. Yep, there a lot of talented current comic creators,but none have that star power that made a whole generation go ga-ga over them.

Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore era was about 25-35 years ago and here we are still talking about them. I don't see current creators today who will be talked about 25-35 years from now like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore are still.

That could be a major flaw going forward for the hobby, as new generations need their heroes/stars like we did?

This thread is a perfect example, as in I don't see any new stuff being talked about that would be considered keys because of story/art to determine value.

The discussion seems to end in the early 1990s which was about 25 years ago

Surely, there has to be creators since then that has shaken the comic book world like Frank Miller,Todd McFarlane,John Byrne,Neal Adams and Alan Moore? It seems like comic books had this great growth period between 1961 to mid-1990s,than all of a sudden it just stopped and seems like it is going thru the motions.

 

I think there's lots of modern writers whose runs are held in very high regard and have that kind of power to attract fans. I see Gaiman and Morrison as kind of the torch-bearers after Moore and Miller, but, more recently, there's Bendis on Daredevil (I've heard his Avengers is good, too), Scott Snyder's Batman ('Tec 871 is a key issue because it is the beginning of Snyder's Batman work), Brubaker's Cap and DD runs, Remender on X-Force. Lots of guys and many of them have had long, acclaimed runs on those titles. Sometimes the premium is attached to the floppies, sometimes it isn't, but TPB and HC reprints are available in a way that they never were back in the 80's and before. The value of Gaiman's Sandman run (which I bought off the shelf starting with issue 6 and was sure would be worth a fortune one day), is really limited by the fact that it is reprinted to death. Check the prices on Omnibuses for some of these guys, though. When those things go out of print, they get astronomical, so people definitely value the stories. Remember what the original Miracleman HC's were worth? Insane prices. I'm one that really treasures a whole volume of a writer's run, so when I hear great things about Bendis's DD, I'd just rather get a HC volume than put together individual issues. Growing up, though, I had no way to read Byrne's X-Men or O'Neil/Adams Bats except to fork over big money for each individual issue.

I think the other part of the equation is the proliferation of entertainment now versus "the good old days", whether within the medium or outside. Music, video games, sports, television, etc. It's all been cranked up to 11 and there are an insane amount of choices. That's kinda why I mainly stick to comics. It's rare that I watch TV or go to a movie because I need to control that overload to stay sane. 

[Robot Man]

On 6/23/2018 at 7:22 AM, faster friends said:

Adventure Comics 431-440

Great Spectre stories with Jim Aparo artwork 

Even better any of the early Spectre stories in More Fun up until he got that stupid sidekick!

[FoggyNelson]

Most any Stan Lee early Marvel story is supeb‼️‼️?

[SteppinRazor]

5 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

He is a rockstar of comics and worth about 400 million. Probably richer than Stan Lee and the all-time richest comic book creator.  This guy is one shrewd businessman. Kind of like Gene Simmons of Kiss. Knows how to market himself,but stepped on a few toes along the way.

If it wasn't for him there would be no Image Comics most likely. He is what drove the engine of Image to be born and kept it afloat during the lean years.

Imagine if he left Image during the late 90s? We might not have The Walking Dead as we know it today.

Agree, I meant influence on artistic style, in line with what VintageComics posted

[SteppinRazor]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Umm...except that there were a handful of artists trying damn-hard to imitate McFarlane.

Stephen Platt, I think, was the most obvious example. Moon Knight 55 took off precisely because it featured "a new artist who drew like McFarlane" -- and among his early covers -- Moon Knight 55-57, Prophet # 4 variant and Prophet # 5 may as well have been drawn by McFarlane.

Capullo's another one -- there's a reason he was the first to follow McFarlane on Spawn -- he'd been mentored and trained up by him.

I'd even argue that Liefeld was heavily influenced by McFarlane, who both inked and co-penciled some of the early Liefeld New Mutants issues.

It's all opinion, but I personally never found those guys to have adopted McFarlane's style.  Which is perhaps to McFarlane's credit, that he was unique enough that he couldn't really be imitated.

[Robot Man]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:31 PM, kav said:

Shock Suspense stories #13, which has the only story penciled and inked by Frazetta.

+ 1 but for me personaly, I'd have to pick "Carrion Death" in Shock Suspenstories #9 by Feldstein. Classic horror story that really shook me bad when I was a kid and still stands up well.

[Robot Man]

4 hours ago, Tony D said:

Amazing Spider-Man #248 - The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man.

 

Yep, that one popped to my mind right away.

[Robot Man]

I'm a GA guy and not so much into "men in tights". 

Pretty much any EC comic. The best writing and stories of all. Horror, Sci-Fi, War, Humor and more. They pretty much had it all covered, If you didn't like a story, just flip to the next one. The first one that comes to mind right away is "Judgement Day" from Weird Fantasy #18. So good it was reprinted a year or so later. Timeless and still stands up today.

Pretty much anything by Carl Barks. A master story teller and artist. Wonderful, well paced and drawn stories. A refreshing change. My favorite is "A Christmas for Shacktown". Timeless, with a beautiful message. I read it every year during the holidays to my kids and now my grandkids.

Other more modern stuff that just pops into my head are "The KIlling Joke", Green Lantern #76-89 and a lot of the run of Swamp Thing. Wrightson...

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, Martin Sinescu said:

I think there's lots of modern writers whose runs are held in very high regard and have that kind of power to attract fans. I see Gaiman and Morrison as kind of the torch-bearers after Moore and Miller, but, more recently, there's Bendis on Daredevil (I've heard his Avengers is good, too), Scott Snyder's Batman ('Tec 871 is a key issue because it is the beginning of Snyder's Batman work), Brubaker's Cap and DD runs, Remender on X-Force. Lots of guys and many of them have had long, acclaimed runs on those titles. Sometimes the premium is attached to the floppies, sometimes it isn't, but TPB and HC reprints are available in a way that they never were back in the 80's and before. The value of Gaiman's Sandman run (which I bought off the shelf starting with issue 6 and was sure would be worth a fortune one day), is really limited by the fact that it is reprinted to death. Check the prices on Omnibuses for some of these guys, though. When those things go out of print, they get astronomical, so people definitely value the stories. Remember what the original Miracleman HC's were worth? Insane prices. I'm one that really treasures a whole volume of a writer's run, so when I hear great things about Bendis's DD, I'd just rather get a HC volume than put together individual issues. Growing up, though, I had no way to read Byrne's X-Men or O'Neil/Adams Bats except to fork over big money for each individual issue.

I think the other part of the equation is the proliferation of entertainment now versus "the good old days", whether within the medium or outside. Music, video games, sports, television, etc. It's all been cranked up to 11 and there are an insane amount of choices. That's kinda why I mainly stick to comics. It's rare that I watch TV or go to a movie because I need to control that overload to stay sane. 

Well put. 

[NoMan]

25 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

Yep, that one popped to my mind right away.

are you being factitious? (ASM 248) Or is this seriously a good story to hunt down and read?

Edited June 25, 2018 by NoMan

[jaeldubyoo]

On 6/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, NoMan said:

I remember when Lone Wolf and Cub first came out in 1987. Frank Miller gave it his approval and BAM I was there. Got very repetitive very quickly.  As a side note: in 1987 I saw a film marathon of the Baby Cart Assassin movies which are based on the old japanese Lone Wolf comics (Roger Corman would take the best parts of the series and make the compaltion film Shogun's Assassin) . Saw it at the old Sing Lee theater in downtown Los Angeles, andold Japanese only theater going back to the 30s. I had to put my feet up in the chair in front of me because if I didn't roaches crawled up my leg.

Sounds like the old run-down theater my buddy and I used to go to in the 70s and 80s. It was an adult movie place before they start showing martial arts flicks. The floor was so sticky I was afraid my shoes would come off.

[jaeldubyoo]

On 6/22/2018 at 12:53 AM, NoMan said:

I’d feel comfortable sayin Moon Knight # 26 “Hit It” by Doug M and Bill S would be s fairly big key.  

What would be your keys?

Definitely Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2 and Avengers Annual #7. Starlin at his best.