Will Batman 251 become the new Incredible Hulk 181? 1 1

[Frisco Larson]

Netherlands copy.

[Frisco Larson]

French copy.

[Frisco Larson]

Later French copy.

[Keys_Collector]

So cool seeing foreign editions and the subtle difference between them.  I don't see the rationale in thinking that this book will "become the new Hulk 181" but that has seemed to be the catch all phrase for every hot book with potential from this time period (I've heard WWBN32 potentially called "the new Hulk 181" a few times over the years).

 

[Randall Dowling]

I love @Frisco Larson's foreign editions!  Those are pretty cool.  

Unfortunately, I read the rest of this thread and man, the OP is waaaaay off on why Batman 251 is in such high demand.  In the CGC era, the chase of which covers are "classic" and which are not has been the greatest driver of price inflation.  Is Neal Adams arguably the best artist of the early 70s?  Yes.  But the reason this book is so widely valued is because of it's incredible clarity and coolness on the cover (which obviously Neal Adams drew, I'm just saying that if had been done by Jim Aparo and looked exactly the same, it would be worth just as much).  The whole "ace of spades means death and murder" or "the joker is murdering people" are probably the most messed up interpretations for valuing comics I've ever heard.  I don't know of a single collector that I've ever met that thinks that way.  Psychiatrists would describe such a thought process as "anti-social".  

[Frisco Larson]

1 hour ago, Randall Dowling said:

I love @Frisco Larson's foreign editions!  Those are pretty cool.  

Unfortunately, I read the rest of this thread and man, the OP is waaaaay off on why Batman 251 is in such high demand.  In the CGC era, the chase of which covers are "classic" and which are not has been the greatest driver of price inflation.  Is Neal Adams arguably the best artist of the early 70s?  Yes.  But the reason this book is so widely valued is because of it's incredible clarity and coolness on the cover (which obviously Neal Adams drew, I'm just saying that if had been done by Jim Aparo and looked exactly the same, it would be worth just as much).  The whole "ace of spades means death and murder" or "the joker is murdering people" are probably the most messed up interpretations for valuing comics I've ever heard.  I don't know of a single collector that I've ever met that thinks that way.  Psychiatrists would describe such a thought process as "anti-social".  

Thanks for the props on those books! They're kind of a labor of love, tracking them down and getting them graded.  I didn't read the opening post, I just joined in sharing books 

[Randall Ries]

On 5/20/2020 at 2:44 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I love @Frisco Larson's foreign editions!  Those are pretty cool.  

Unfortunately, I read the rest of this thread and man, the OP is waaaaay off on why Batman 251 is in such high demand.  In the CGC era, the chase of which covers are "classic" and which are not has been the greatest driver of price inflation.  Is Neal Adams arguably the best artist of the early 70s?  Yes.  But the reason this book is so widely valued is because of it's incredible clarity and coolness on the cover (which obviously Neal Adams drew, I'm just saying that if had been done by Jim Aparo and looked exactly the same, it would be worth just as much).  The whole "ace of spades means death and murder" or "the joker is murdering people" are probably the most messed up interpretations for valuing comics I've ever heard.  I don't know of a single collector that I've ever met that thinks that way.  Psychiatrists would describe such a thought process as "anti-social".  

Why else would it be suddenly valued so high? I bought my 9.0 CGC in 2013 for $115. Now it's worth almost $1,000. Why not tell us all what the Ace of Spades meant in pop culture at that time? At the time of the books printing, it meant death. A folk legend about the ace of spades being used by American Soldiers during the Vietnam War was popularized. Supposedly, US troops believed that Vietnamese traditions held the symbolism of the spade to mean death and ill-fortune and in a bid to frighten and demoralize Viet Cong soldiers, it was common practice to mockingly leave an ace of spades on the bodies of killed Vietnamese and even to litter the forested grounds and fields with the card. Of COURSE it meant death symbolized on the cover. Maybe other collectors just haven't given it any thought?

It IS the first time Joker murdered since 1942. I think collectors finally figured that out. There is nothing overtly unusual or special about the story. No new character(s). It had been awhile since the Joker was used in a story but not all that long. It's a cool cover, yes. Not cooler than 244. Which has much more "incredible clarity and coolness". Which is worth much less.

If Aparo had done the cover and art and O"Neil the story, it would have been worth somewhat less but have been eventually buoyed by the story. Joker is murdering again after 29 years. I can't think of any other reason for it.