Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable'? 6 6

[Dormian]

I asked a CGC rep at a con a while back about re-submission for the Newton Rings and was told the book would still have the rings after reslabbing.  A gentleman standing next to me that was submitting a stack of books commented that there is nothing that can be done. I did what every consumer should do when they are told to accept an inferior or faulty product. I walked over to the competitor.

[Jeffro.]

On 8/4/2018 at 7:46 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Newton Rings: delicious AND nutritious....?

 

You're thinking of Newton's Rings. They have cream filling!

[Jeffro.]

On 8/3/2018 at 6:20 PM, DavidTheDavid said:

 

Have we really lived with these for four years? Is it reasonable to think that after four years and how many case iterations that we will see this actually addressed?

As long as people keeping submitting, nothing will change.

[Jeffro.]

3 minutes ago, Dormian said:

I asked a CGC rep at a con a while back about re-submission for the Newton Rings and was told the book would still have the rings after reslabbing.  A gentleman standing next to me that was submitting a stack of books commented that there is nothing that can be done. I did what every consumer should do when they are told to accept an inferior or faulty product. I walked over to the competitor.

If more people did this, then perhaps real change would occur.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

I can't predict what CGC will do about this, but I think I CAN predict what will happen to sellers.

There are a LOT of very picky collectors out there.  How many times have you seen gorgeous books returned because of undisclosed scratches on the case?

So, unfortunately, sellers are in a pickle:

A) If they disclose the faulty case in the listing, buyers will avoid them. 

B) If a buyer (who's not super-informed about all the technical mumbo jumbo about newton rings) buys a slab from a seller who doesn't disclose the newton rings in the listing, there's some probability it will be returned, with the seller paying to/from shipping and insurance.  Stating 'no returns on slabs' or pointing out that the pics show the newton rings won't matter.  eBay will side with the buyer because it's an obvious (undisclosed) flaw.

Fun.

[Black_Adam]

1 hour ago, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

I can't predict what CGC will do about this, but I think I CAN predict what will happen to sellers.

There are a LOT of very picky collectors out there.  How many times have you seen gorgeous books returned because of undisclosed scratches on the case?

So, unfortunately, sellers are in a pickle:

A) If they disclose the faulty case in the listing, buyers will avoid them. 

B) If a buyer (who's not super-informed about all the technical mumbo jumbo about newton rings) buys a slab from a seller who doesn't disclose the newton rings in the listing, there's some probability it will be returned, with the seller paying to/from shipping and insurance.  Stating 'no returns on slabs' or pointing out that the pics show the newton rings won't matter.  eBay will side with the buyer because it's an obvious (undisclosed) flaw.

Fun.

Totally agree. I know for myself I now take an extra critical look at slabs available online (including here on the CGC boards) and if I see a sea of Newton Rings am likely to pass knowing I'll just be disappointed when the book is finally in hand and knowing the recourse - reholdering - is basically a financial reward to CGC for their f*** up and no guarantee the problem will be corrected.

[Gaard]

I've never had a return due to them, but I have had a couple buyers message me after receiving their books concerning them.

 

Myself, I've returned 1 book because of them - it was covered.

[lonetree]

I have had one book returned (at my expense) and two inquiries after they received their books with the newton rings. The listings did not state newton rings included, but they were evident in the images.  On both the inquiries, I provided them the CGC link and also this thread link.  They both kept the books.

[The Lions Den]

 

At the risk of stepping on a slippery slope, I do have some comments about this troublesome issue. Please don't shoot the messenger, folks...

1) It was brought up early on in this thread that this is a "Quality Control" issue. There was some confusion over that statement. What I think they meant (someone correct me if I'm wrong) was that if the Newton Rings are excessive, the QC person should send those books back to the slab room and have them redone. This is common practice for QC folks---if there's anything wrong with the holder(s), they're sent back to the slab room for a redo. Noticeable Newton Rings (NNR) should, in my view, be handled the same way. This wouldn't affect any other part of the process that I can think of. Is it a hassle? Of course. Would it help solve the problem? My guess is that it would help, but not completely fix the problem. And here's why...

2) I can't think of a place in the CGC universe where there's more going on than the slab room. Seriously, you'd better know what you're going in there for and who you specifically want to talk to, because if it's anything like I remember, that place is busy, dude! For starters, they have to print off the label for the book and then put the label and the book in the correct inner holder, making sure the book is properly aligned so as not to seal the book into the heat seal itself. They also have to make sure the inner holder will fit correctly inside the outer shell (believe it or not, sometimes there's a problem there). They also have to make wedges for the books if they don't fit tightly into the inner well. Also, they have to keep track of all the invoices and keep all those books together when they're slabbed (not as easy to do as you might think, for a number of reasons). There are also books that miraculously appear that need to be done yesterday. And while the slab folks are busy dealing with all those common everyday issues, the QC guy comes in with a box full of books and tells them they all need to be redone because of something known as "Newton Rings." Yeah...  

3) As much as I'd like for this problem to be resolved, the truth is that Newton Rings may be here long after we're gone...for future generations to stare at and wonder...WHY? 

[I like pie]

People buying books they didn't originally submit are pretty much out of luck as well:

"Any issues or damage would have to be reported within two weeks of the received date..."

[Aznfunk]

Just got my very first CGC SS graded slabs back after months of waiting and was somewhat disappointed to see 6 out my 10 books (which is a pretty bad percentage for error) with noticeable oily spots, which I later found out are a known issue called Newton Rings. I held out on getting books slabbed until after CGC had worked out the kinks and perfected the "slabbing" process. Unfortunately they have not. Bottom line is they look sloppy. I will be waiting until they fix this issue before I get anymore books slabbed.

[I like pie]

That's a lot of votes.

[Point Five]

13 minutes ago, I like pie said:

That's a lot of votes.

Seriously. From the above survey, the forum viewpoint is crystal clear. Try getting 89% of us to agree on anything!

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Well I finally submitted to cgc a comic that wasn't a magazine and got the newest edition holder.... NEWTON RINGS... I'm not sure if it is sealed to tight or what, but I believe this should be looked into with cgc's quality control, if in fact cgc see's and deems that very few of these Newton rings are on the newest holder to warrant saying the current situation is satisfactory....because I don't believe that it is... here is a pic of the book that I got back today, this sketch looks sketchy due to Newton rings

Click on the pic and maybe it will get to larger size, I'm not sure

 

[I like pie]

[ADAMANTIUM]

15 minutes ago, I like pie said:

Ya it's pretty bad...

What's weird is the back hardly has any rings...

I don't know if the "inks" set off gases, shoot, I don't want it to be cgc but snap!

Everyone I showed it to today said

one person's immediate reaction was send it back. 

I'll just be patient, but I'm sure there is a time limit to get a reholder for free....

Edited August 9, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM

[I like pie]

Fed ex just dropped this off

[I like pie]

Really curious on the opinion of the 11% who voted this doesn't bother them.

[DavidTheDavid]

2 hours ago, I like pie said:

Really curious on the opinion of the 11% who voted this doesn't bother them.

Out of fairness, their votes don't imply that this doesn't bother them.

Myself, I'm just not submitting anything right now. I wanted to, too, but this is extremely discouraging. The ripple effect of this is that the business which would press and submit on my behalf doesn't get my business right now.

Edited August 9, 2018 by DavidTheDavid

[Gaard]

I'm curious to see an example of a slab that QC sends back because of too many newton rings.