Is this person crazy? 1 1

[telerites]

1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

I suggested if he had pre-handoff pictures that would help his case..

It would but if the cases were compromised to a point where they may need to be regraded and not just reslabbed at hand-off, shouldn't CGC tell him that at time of acceptance?  

Maybe they don't look that closely or at all as I have never turned in books at a con.  I wonder if there was anyone else's books in that shipment back to CGC that were damaged too.  If he could find out or if CGC knows that, then shouldn't the expense be all on CGC?  I can't imagine it was just his books if it was in transit but maybe so or they were dropped, stepped on, etc. by and while CGC was packing them up?  

And since the books are now raw, they must have been in the grading cycle and deslabbed by CGC, correct?  

Once dropped off at con, does CGC then have/take responsibility from that point forward?  Or is it still the submitter's burden until they get to Sarasota?

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

1 hour ago, Buzzetta said:

Well, at least we have the answer to the topic question.

 

This person is NOT crazy. 

 

Thread closed.... right? 

 

Seriously though, what happened to the books in transit. 

Buzz,

I'm in the same forum and read the same thread.  It's very clear by CGC Representative Darren Garoutte's statement below that he's describing Shaken Comic Syndrome (SCS).

“Impact damage occurs when kinetic force is applied to the holder and the energy from that force transfers through the holder to the far more flexible material of the book inside of it. Sometimes this results in the case being cracked, but not always”

There's nothing nefarious going on here, as this is exactly what CGC should be doing; namely, inspecting all books for damage prior to reholder.  Books that have been damaged by shaking around inside the case should not simply be reholdered, they should be fully regraded.

---

There are tons of books out there like this, and I see them all the time.  Here's an example (this book is currently for sale on eBay):

link - eBay item number:332830475870

Certification Information

Certification #:	1277827004
Title:	Superboy
Issue:	188
Issue Date:	7/72
Issue Year:	1972
Publisher:	D.C. Comics
Grade:	8.0
Page Quality:	OFF-WHITE TO WHITE
Grade Date:	08/13/2018
Category:	Universal
Art Comments:	Cary Bates story Dave Cockrum & Murphy Anderson art Nick Cardy cover
Key Comments:	Legion of Super-Heroes back-up story.

This is a severely damaged book sitting inside an undamaged CGC case.  Obviously, this book is no longer an 8.0.  And in my experience with pressing out SCS damage, a press may not help this particular book, since many times the edge is torn as well as crushed.

The sad thing here is that this recently graded book will probably be sold; the new owner never realizing the damage since he bought the grade on the plastic rather than the book within.  It really pays to know how to grade in this hobby and to stay apprised of case design issues, rather than simply relying on third parties.  To date, no grading company has a case which can protect the comic inside from the normal impact forces associated with postal/courier companies.  The dirty little secret in this hobby is that anytime an encapsulated book is shipped through the mail, the book inside is exposed to a very high risk of damage.

[Buzzetta]

7 minutes ago, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

Buzz,

I'm in the same forum and read the same thread.  It's very clear by CGC Representative Darren Garoutte's statement below that he's describing Shaken Comic Syndrome (SCS).

“Impact damage occurs when kinetic force is applied to the holder and the energy from that force transfers through the holder to the far more flexible material of the book inside of it. Sometimes this results in the case being cracked, but not always”

There's nothing nefarious going on here, as this is exactly what CGC should be doing; namely, inspecting all books for damage prior to reholder.  Books that have been damaged by shaking around inside the case should not simply be reholdered, they should be fully regraded.

---

There are tons of books out there like this, and I see them all the time.  Here's an example (this book is currently for sale on eBay):

link - eBay item number:332830475870

Certification Information

Certification #:	1277827004
Title:	Superboy
Issue:	188
Issue Date:	7/72
Issue Year:	1972
Publisher:	D.C. Comics
Grade:	8.0
Page Quality:	OFF-WHITE TO WHITE
Grade Date:	08/13/2018
Category:	Universal
Art Comments:	Cary Bates story Dave Cockrum & Murphy Anderson art Nick Cardy cover
Key Comments:	Legion of Super-Heroes back-up story.

This is a severely damaged book sitting inside an undamaged CGC case.  Obviously, this book is no longer an 8.0.  And in my experience with pressing out SCS damage, a press may not help this particular book, since many times the edge is torn as well as crushed.

The sad thing here is that this recently graded book will probably be sold; the new owner never realizing the damage since he bought the grade on the plastic rather than the book within.  It really pays to know how to grade in this hobby and to stay apprised of case design issues, rather than simply relying on third parties.  To date, no grading company has a case which can protect the comic inside from the normal impact forces associated with postal/courier companies.  The dirty little secret in this hobby is that anytime an encapsulated book is shipped through the mail, the book inside is exposed to a very high risk of damage.

Oh no, I was merely addressing whether or not he was told by CGC that pressing my be required to maintain the grades for the resubmits.  He produced the email and it appears to be on the up and up.  I agree with you though... there is definite risk in transit no matter the book and in anyone's holder.  To me the grade on a book merely represents the assigned grade at the point of grading. 

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

28 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Oh no, I was merely addressing whether or not he was told by CGC that pressing my be required to maintain the grades for the resubmits.  He produced the email and it appears to be on the up and up.  I agree with you though... there is definite risk in transit no matter the book and in anyone's holder.  To me the grade on a book merely represents the assigned grade at the point of grading. 

Gotcha.  I thought you were asking about what happened to the books in transit.

Realistically, CGC should probably take a firmer stance on this and state up front that some reholders require the book to be removed before it can be adequately inspected for SCS damage.  IMO, CGC should also make it clear that if SCS damage is found, the original grade may never be achieved (with or without pressing).

[MadGenius]

This is anecdotal evidence based on my experience, but it seems SCS is much more prevalent in the current holder than it was in the older holder. I'm not sure why that is, but I think there's something about the design of that slab that leaves the books inside more vulnerable to SCS. I think CGC tried to address SCS when they first rolled out the new holder a couple of years ago, but as we know that design was also flawed in other ways. 

I don't have much experience with the competitor's slabs, but does SCS happen at the same rate as with the CGC design?

[Bomber-Bob]

SCS is alive and well in all versions of CGC holders and the competitor's holders. I see it a lot, even on books shown here on the Boards. Often, the owner doesn't even realize it, only staring at that big number on the label. I agree with DItch that CGC is doing their job and not blindly reholdering books. Take a look at this poor guy's 3K purchase......

 

[miraclemet]

Yeah once he posted the email I believed him.... that facebook group has some massive CGC haters, and I couldnt figure out if he was one (and making it up) or if it was real. Once he posted the email I knew it was the real deal. 

 

The (new) question is, if books get SCS when they are being shipped from a show (where CGC took possession for a re-holder) to the main office is CGC on the hook for the damage? 

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you don't know how to grade a comic for yourself, you are at the mercy of anyone and everyone.

The point of grading is to find consensus...you agree with the grade that the third party has assigned to the book; rather than accepting it blindly because you don't know any better.

The best investment anyone buying any slab could ever make is to take the time and learn how to grade for yourself.

This advice will be ignored by 95% of the people who don't know how to grade, but to that 5% who take it to heart, you will be well rewarded.

[F For Fake]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:10 AM, miraclemet said:

Yeah once he posted the email I believed him.... that facebook group has some massive CGC haters, and I couldnt figure out if he was one (and making it up) or if it was real. Once he posted the email I knew it was the real deal. 

 

The (new) question is, if books get SCS when they are being shipped from a show (where CGC took possession for a re-holder) to the main office is CGC on the hook for the damage? 

That's my question as well, and I certainly hope the answer is yes. If a submitter is sending a book to CGC and it gets damaged in transit, that's on the submitter, or on the courier they're using to ship the book(s) (i.e. let's hope the purchased insurance.)

But if it happens after CGC takes the book, then that should be on them. No way should the guy have to shell out another $80 to press the books if they got damaged in CGC's care. However, proving that the SCS happened during CGC's transit, and not beforehand, is going to be tough, I'd imagine.