Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[Bosco685]

"This show is so groundbreaking because..."

{checks Disney talking points}

"...it delivers like the MCU has never delivered previously and beyond any diversity contribution ever achieved by any other studio and [insert character here] has achieved a standard like none other across the MCU's history!"

[skypinkblu]

35 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Also, how about SHARON CARTER?!? When newly pardoned "Agent" Carter walked down the Capitol steps with cell phone in hand making new world changing deals in the end credits, the days of the ladies being handmaids in the MCU officially ended.

Are you going to tell the women of Wakanda that they were "handmaids"?

MCU has had some very strong females all along. What about Lady Sith? A handmaid? VALKYRIE?  I'm sure that there are others, but I don't split out genders or races in my head, they are all superheroes (or super villains)

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by skypinkblu

[Bosco685]

10 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Are you going to tell the women of Wakanda that they were "handmaids"?

MCU has had some very strong females all along. What about Lady Sith? A handmaid? VALKYRIE?  I'm sure that there are others, but I don't split out genders or races in my head, they are all superheroes (or super villains)

 

They were so yesterday though. He means...

[@therealsilvermane]

32 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Black Widow has been driving home that point since Iron Man 2. I never saw her as anyone's handmaid.

Even in Captain America: The Winter Soldier she was a powerhouse that was following her own direction by playing in and out of Cap's mission. 

 

1 minute ago, skypinkblu said:

Are you going to tell the women of Wakanda that they were "handmaids"?

MCU has had some very strong females all along. What about Lady Sith? A handmaid? VALKYRIE?  I'm sure that there are others, but I don't split out genders or races in my head, they are all superheroes (or super villains)

 

Black Widow was essentially Nick Fury and Tony Stark's handmaid in Iron Man 2. By Age of Ultron, she'd become the Avengers' handmaid, even jokingly complaining "Do I always have to pick up after you boys?" and having to be the one tasked with calming Hulk down. I feel Natasha didn't truly become her own person who took the lead on her own choices until Avengers Endgame.

The Dora Milaje are basically warrior handmaids who serve and protect the King of Wakanda.

In myth, who are the Valkyrie but the Asgardian warrior handmaids of Odin who guide the dead to Valhalla? Granted, MCU Valkyrie was a bit of a rogue and seemed to do her own thing, but it seemed she really just traded Odin for the Grandmaster.

Agent 13 Sharon Carter and Maria Hill were constant handmaids to either Nick Fury or SHIELD in general, by duty yes, but still.

Even Carol Danvers was a mind-enslaved warrior handmaid to the Kree until she frees herself from their clutches.

What happened in Falcon and Winter Soldier is Marvel took Sharon Carter, a lesser character whose sole purpose in the MCU was to either serve Nick Fury or Steve Rogers, and who again seemed like she might be Sam and Bucky's handmaid too, completely empowered her and made her arbiter of her own choices in the end credits. I think this is the model going forward for the MCU.

 

[Gatsby77]

57 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Also, how about SHARON CARTER?!? When newly pardoned "Agent" Carter walked down the Capitol steps with cell phone in hand making new world changing deals in the end credits, the days of the ladies being handmaids in the MCU officially ended.

Yeah - seriously?

As I contended last week, as soon as we saw Sharon call Batroc, it was obvious she was the Power Broker.

Yeah - I worked through the possibility of its being Madame Hydra and there was some internet chatter that "okay, it's Sharon...but the Power Broker identity itself is really a deep cover fiction and she's secretly working for Nick Fury," etc.

I think the latter would be a cop-out -- it's far stronger to have her work as a 3rd party anti-hero (see also, Ilysa from Mission Impossible V and VI).

Again, nothing we haven't seen before in shows like Homeland (seasons 4 and 5, especially), but still a solid set-up for future stories.

[Gatsby77]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

What happened in Falcon and Winter Soldier is Marvel took Sharon Carter, a lesser character whose sole purpose in the MCU was to either serve Nick Fury or Steve Rogers, and who again seemed like she might be Sam and Bucky's handmaid too, completely empowered her and made her arbiter of her own choices in the end credits. I think this is the model going forward for the MCU.

You know she shot Steve Rogers in Captain America 25, right?

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Black Widow was essentially Nick Fury and Tony Stark's handmaid in Iron Man 2. By Age of Ultron, she'd become the Avengers' handmaid, even jokingly complaining "Do I always have to pick up after you boys?" and having to be the one tasked with calming Hulk down. I feel Natasha didn't truly become her own person who took the lead on her own choices until Avengers Endgame.

The Dora Milaje are basically warrior handmaids who serve and protect the King of Wakanda.

In myth, who are the Valkyrie but the Asgardian warrior handmaids of Odin who guide the dead to Valhalla? Granted, MCU Valkyrie was a bit of a rogue and seemed to do her own thing, but it seemed she really just traded Odin for the Grandmaster.

Agent 13 Sharon Carter and Maria Hill were constant handmaids to either Nick Fury or SHIELD in general, by duty yes, but still.

Even Carol Danvers was a mind-enslaved warrior handmaid to the Kree until she frees herself from their clutches.

What happened in Falcon and Winter Soldier is Marvel took Sharon Carter, a lesser character whose sole purpose in the MCU was to either serve Nick Fury or Steve Rogers, and who again seemed like she might be Sam and Bucky's handmaid too, completely empowered her and made her arbiter of her own choices in the end credits. I think this is the model going forward for the MCU.

 

I really want to know when you are getting those MCU glasses changed out? They truly warp your view on reality. Black Widow was nobody's handmaid. No matter how you want to twist that story. And twist you do!

Now in reality, there has been more than a few very strong female characters that set the tone early on this was going to be a diverse franchise. And even when it came to strong minority characters, James Rhodes has been there since the beginning. 

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

You know she shot Steve Rogers in Captain America 25, right?

A brainwashed Manchurian candidate Sharon Carter, right? Even in the comics Agent Carter was either Steve Rogers' handmaid or the Red Skull's.

[@therealsilvermane]

11 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Now in reality, there has been more than a few very strong female characters that set the tone early on this was going to be a diverse franchise. And even when it came to strong minority characters, James Rhodes has been there since the beginning. 

Don't even get me started on the two African-American Avengers in the MCU. Sam and Rhodes were basically the "good buddies" to Steve and Tony their entire MCU careers until now. Now Sam is Captain America and able to get out of Steve's shadow(while, yes, continuing Steve's legacy but doing it his own unique way) and Rhodes is about to do the same when he takes the lead in Armor Wars. The MCU is evolving with the times.

[Bosco685]

It really was nice to see Bucky become someone else's damsel in distress. He needed to be someone else's damsel after Steve.

[AJLewandoski]

36 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Black Widow was essentially Nick Fury and Tony Stark's handmaid in Iron Man 2. By Age of Ultron, she'd become the Avengers' handmaid, even jokingly complaining "Do I always have to pick up after you boys?" and having to be the one tasked with calming Hulk down. I feel Natasha didn't truly become her own person who took the lead on her own choices until Avengers Endgame.

The Dora Milaje are basically warrior handmaids who serve and protect the King of Wakanda.

In myth, who are the Valkyrie but the Asgardian warrior handmaids of Odin who guide the dead to Valhalla? Granted, MCU Valkyrie was a bit of a rogue and seemed to do her own thing, but it seemed she really just traded Odin for the Grandmaster.

Agent 13 Sharon Carter and Maria Hill were constant handmaids to either Nick Fury or SHIELD in general, by duty yes, but still.

Even Carol Danvers was a mind-enslaved warrior handmaid to the Kree until she frees herself from their clutches.

What happened in Falcon and Winter Soldier is Marvel took Sharon Carter, a lesser character whose sole purpose in the MCU was to either serve Nick Fury or Steve Rogers, and who again seemed like she might be Sam and Bucky's handmaid too, completely empowered her and made her arbiter of her own choices in the end credits. I think this is the model going forward for the MCU.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

7 minutes ago, AJLewandoski said:

Edited April 23, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[jsilverjanet]

wow talk about sexist 

[Bosco685]

[skypinkblu]

25 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

wow talk about sexist 

 

 He obviously grew up in a different culture than I did...so many different ways to grow up in this Country it's amazing. It's also not a bad thing to try to help, I think his efforts are made with a good heart.

  But 

@therealsilvermane

 (not sure why the tag thing is not working)

  ...saying you have to pick up after people, does not make you a handmaid...it was her way of coping with grief. She sacrificed herself for the greater good, she was never a weakling.

It's OK to be female and not be a handmaid. I open my own doors if I can get their first,I cook for friends, bake cookies,..and if anyone called me a handmaid, I'd deck them with the cookie sheet;)

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by skypinkblu

[drotto]

21 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

 

 He obviously grew up in a different culture than I did...so many different ways to grow up in this Country it's amazing. It's also not a bad thing to try to help, I think his efforts are made with a good heart.

  But 

@therealsilvermane

 (not sure why the tag thing is not working)

  ...saying you have to pick up after people, does not make you a handmaid...it was her way of coping with grief. She sacrificed herself for the greater good, she was never a weakling.

It's OK to be female and not be a handmaid. I open my own doors if I can get their first,I cook for friends, bake cookies,..and if anyone called me a handmaid, I'd deck them with the cookie sheet;)

 

Also having woman act differently then men, (yeah men and woman are different), does not make the handmaidens.  I am getting a little tired of people writing women as men and calling that empowering. We have to realize there is more than one way of being and acting like a hero, and trait substitution does not equate good writing or equality.

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, drotto said:

Also having woman act differently then men, (yeah men and woman are different), does not make the handmaidens.  I am getting a little tired of people writing women as men and calling that empowering. We have to realize there is more than one way of being and acting like a hero, and trait substitution does not equate good writing or equality.

I think someone has just been rewatching a favorite show and now that is their term of the week toward women.

Makes him feel upscale in his small circle.

[@therealsilvermane]

55 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

 

 He obviously grew up in a different culture than I did...so many different ways to grow up in this Country it's amazing. It's also not a bad thing to try to help, I think his efforts are made with a good heart.

  But 

@therealsilvermane

 (not sure why the tag thing is not working)

  ...saying you have to pick up after people, does not make you a handmaid...it was her way of coping with grief. She sacrificed herself for the greater good, she was never a weakling.

It's OK to be female and not be a handmaid. I open my own doors if I can get their first,I cook for friends, bake cookies,..and if anyone called me a handmaid, I'd deck them with the cookie sheet;)

 

 

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

Also having woman act differently then men, (yeah men and woman are different), does not make the handmaidens.  I am getting a little tired of people writing women as men and calling that empowering. We have to realize there is more than one way of being and acting like a hero, and trait substitution does not equate good writing or equality.

I'm not saying the women super-heroes, SHIELD agents, and Dora Milaje haven't been able to kick butt, what I'm talking about is their role in the story and dynamic relation to the leading male characters. In Iron Man 2, Natasha/Black Widow kicked serious butt, but her role within the story as written is to serve Tony Stark's adventure. In Age of Ultron, Natasha also kicked butt, but still served a subservient role in relation to the big guys. Sharon Carter is a bada*s agent in Winter Soldier and Civil War, but her role within the story is to serve Steve Rogers' story/mission. The Dora Milaje's whole thing was to serve the throne. They're the ultimate secondary characters.

On the other hand, in MCU films where women are part of a team, like Gamora in Guardians or Hope Van Dyne in Ant-Man and the Wasp, although they got to be decision makers in the adventure, that higher role was somewhat diminished by having to also play the wet blanket to the goofy fun loving guys. Star-Lord, Rocket, Drax, and Scott Lang get to have fun and laugh and make jokes while Gamora and Hope constantly attempt to supress that fun. Now, instead of playing handmaids, they're playing nannies.

Which brings me to Captain Marvel and a reason why I love the MCU version so much. Carol is the main character of her story so she is h-word to nobody. At the same time, she isn't nanny to a bunch of goofball guys. In fact, she gets to have fun and make dumb jokes this time.

I just don't feel Natasha Romanoff had achieved this level of character development until Endgame.

Wanda got this higher level treatment in WandaVision.

And now Sharon Carter got to be her own person, particularly towards the end of FWS. But even at the beginning, her main purpose to help Sam and Bucky was to get the U.S. pardon. She wasn't simply helping because it's her role to help in the story. She got to be selfish. For Marvel to allow a secondary character like Sharon to suddenly make her own decisions in her own self-interest is a major step IMO for women characters in the MCU. How much more selfish and independent will the women super-heroes (not named Carol Danvers) that are getting their own adventures be then?

Edited April 23, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Randall Dowling]

I've hidden my feelings about the latest episode so as not to spoil for others.

Spoiler

 

I'm usually not the hyper-critical type, looking for any nitpicky flaw I can find in a tv show or movie, but... They took what was a very promising beginning and some excellent development episodes and drove all that auspicious promise right off a cliff.  I was really enjoying the series until this episode and now, I want my money and time back.  

The design of the new Captain America uniform is as bad as bad gets.  Not the good kind of bad, the awful kind.  And I couldn't care less about US Agent or Sharon Carter.  This gif (borrowed from the boards) is how I feel about last nights episode.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

I enjoyed the ending of that gif more than the ending of this series @Randall Dowling