Do creators charge too much for signatures?
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7 minutes ago, the blob said:

It saddens me that the nice conversations I had with john romita senior and Chris claremont getting books signed 25 years ago is now a financial transaction where they probably figure the fan will be flipping them. 

Me too.

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6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Lives are finite. We have already lost many big name creators in the last 10 years. In a perfect world, where everyone lived forever, yes, the market would eventually get around and correct them...but Herb Trimpe and Stan Lee and Gene Colon and Joe Simon and Joe Kubert and Mike Turner and Norm Breyfogle and many, many others are done signing books in this lifetime.

I don't think you've been paying attention to what I've been saying: creators are reacting to people in the industry...art reps and facilitators...who are lying to them, and telling them that people doing CGC are making "fat stacks of cash" off of them, and they need a cut of that...in fact, "here, let ME manage you, and I'll make sure you get your cut!!" (while, of course, ensuring they get THEIR cut, too, and all the free sigs they want, for themselves, naturally. It's quite the racket.) Or, they're being told "well, CGC is making money off of them, so you should, too!" (Nevermind that CGC performs a service requiring far more effort and resources than a signature.)

THAT is what the creators are reacting to at this moment in time.

When you have people lying to you like that, and nobody voicing the other side of the equation, what do you think is going to happen? Let me tell you, the "I'm sorry, I was told I had to charge more for CGC" statement has come out of the sheephish mouths of more than one creator that I have stood in front of. I paid it...I have always paid what creators demand...it's a requirement by CGC, and if you do not, you will be barred from the program...but not without making some (very polite, very professional) effort to explain the issue. Frequently, I've paid more, and most of the time, been thrilled to do it (see: Mark Texeira.) And, yes, I have put books back in the box that I had prepared for them to sign, and they got $0 for those books.

Once these creators are gone, their body of SS copies is DONE. OVER. FINISHED. Ain't no more coming. I own the only copies of Showcase #83 and #84 signed by Bernie for SS. The only ones. There will never be another copy of those books in SS. You want one? Too bad. For all intents and purposes, they don't exist.

Then edumacate them! Write a thoughtful letter to each of your favorite 25 or whatever artists. You're good at presenting data. It does sound like maybe the cgc as route may consume a little more of their time than plastic through a stack of 30 books?

Edited by the blob

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3 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's kind of like selling a slabbed book, you want cgc to grade the book in order to ensure the reputation of the grade...

Same with signature series....

There is a whole box at my half priced books of like 40 books with raw sigs...

Sat there forever...

If they were yellow label, whoever sold them might have at least got their total fees back, if these certain sigs meant anything to anybody lol

@kav @the blob

Watched him sign it myself in like 78.  Not for sale.  Don't care about the green label.  Probably won't ever get anything signed again but still enjoy this one.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_76f.jpg.ca71198d73dc5622dcc7d5c4cd3910db.jpg

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Just now, grayzr said:

and if CGC would create a sig series with label sigs I might finally buy a CGc sig book.

^^

That wins the internet it really does!

I'm not for or against any of this, I just can understand. Artists are able to charge whatever they want. But if there are that many flippers then when they can't sell, even fans aren't going to be able to pay for it, beacuse....the flippers are dealers and get cheaper prices anyway...

I personally want a Sig, I don't care if it is on the book, I'd rather it not on the book like you said ...... but that is the only way to have it authenticated... just like cgc s labbing a book :foryou:

 

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Keep in mind the amount of any book is done over finished cause they only printed so many.  Nothing special about sigs in this regard.  In fact each sig reduces the # of unblemished copies.

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3 minutes ago, grayzr said:

and if CGC would create a sig series with label sigs I might finally buy a CGc sig book.

They do. They already have a program in place where they put signed items in slabs that are witnessed, but aren't comic books. 

It's the "art" program. It's been in place for years. Here's an example:

s-l1000.jpg

Pretty cool, huh?

It probably wouldn't make much sense to have a signed label AND a comic, but you never know, it might be worth considering if enough people are interested. 

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3 minutes ago, the blob said:

Then edumacate them! Write a thoughtful letter to each of your favorite 25 or whatever artists. You're good at presenting data.

lol

What makes you think I'm not already doing this...? 

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1 minute ago, Karl Liebl said:

Watched him sign it myself in like 78.  Not for sale.  Don't care about the green label.  Probably won't ever get anything signed again but still enjoy this one.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_76f.jpg.ca71198d73dc5622dcc7d5c4cd3910db.jpg

Having it not for sale doesn't prove that it was signed by said artist though. I'm sure yours was, but likely only you know that..... it's about provenance, that's why there are a uthenticators for raw sigs before cgc.

But we have cgc now... no reason to live like a caveman any more.... I can't go back to before cgc, because provenance 

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I love Jim Starlin.

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1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

They do. They already have a program in place where they put signed items in slabs that are witnessed, but aren't comic books. 

It's the "art" program. It's been in place for years. Here's an example:

s-l1000.jpg

Pretty cool, huh?

It probably wouldn't make much sense to have a signed label AND a comic, but you never know, it might be worth considering if enough people are interested. 

I think if it was done right it would be really cool.

yes its not a perfect idea like adding sigs could be come a problem due to limited space but I still think people would like it.

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2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

They do. They already have a program in place where they put signed items in slabs that are witnessed, but aren't comic books. 

It's the "art" program. It's been in place for years. Here's an example:

s-l1000.jpg

Pretty cool, huh?

It probably wouldn't make much sense to have a signed label AND a comic, but you never know, it might be worth considering if enough people are interested. 

If that was a blank it would prove your point...sketch eh not so much, because now your talking about cost for a sketch... dirty flippers...:baiting:

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9 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Because it's none of their business what someone else does with that someone else's property.

 

This is well stated, and so logically, is an artist's signature not "his property" and thus should he not be able to do with it as he wishes?

It is no one else's business what that artist charges someone else for their signature.  A signature "buyer" should only be concerned with what they are being charged and whether or not they wish to pay that price or simply walk away.

The artist has a right to charge each person whatever he wishes for his signature, because after all, his signature is his property, and as you so correctly stated, "it's none of their business what someone else does with that someone else's property".  If the artist wishes to give his signature away for free to some pretty girl and then wants to charge the next person double normal price, then that is up to the artist.  In the end, the "buyer" is the ONLY person who can decide whether or not to pay the price.  All real power is in the buyer's hands.

After all folks, this is a signature.  It is not food, clothing, or a roof over your head.

Just my 2 cents from a guy who doesn't even like signatures on his books.  lol 

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2 minutes ago, Hudson said:

After all folks, this is a signature.  It is not food, clothing, or a roof over your head.

UNLESS he signed a piece of bread or chicken leg or a really large tarp.

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6 minutes ago, kav said:

I love Jim Starlin.

 

2 minutes ago, kav said:

 

UNLESS he signed a piece of bread or chicken leg or a really large tarp.

I love this thread! As stated before in another era when I was still watching educational television...

It's my naptime now, people will live on, carry on .... until next time same batthread same batchannel!

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1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

I love this thread! As stated before in another era when I was still watching educational television...

It's my naptime now, people will live on, carry on .... until next time same batthread same batchannel!

My threads have LEGS baby!

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Rob Liefeld style legs!!!!

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Just now, Hudson said:

This is well stated, and so logically, is an artist's signature not "his property" and thus should he not be able to do with it as he wishes?

Absolutely! Until it is signed. After that, it's no longer his or her property. They maintain total control until they put pen to paper and sign...after that, it no longer belongs to them.

2 minutes ago, Hudson said:

It is no one else's business what that artist charges someone else for their signature.  A signature "buyer" should only be concerned with what they are being charged and whether or not they wish to pay that price or simply walk away.

True.

The problem is when the signature *buyer* is confronted and asked "what they intend to do with that once it's signed." Or, there's a sign that says "sigs are this much, CGC is that much plus some more."

No one has a right to ask anyone that...yet, we are forced to answer that question, or "no sigs for you!"

Can you imagine, walking into a grocery store, buying a dozen eggs, and being asked what you intend to do with them...and then being charged a higher price based on your answer...?

5 minutes ago, Hudson said:

The artist has a right to charge each person whatever he wishes for his signature, because after all, his signature is his property, and as you so correctly stated, "it's none of their business what someone else does with that someone else's property".  If the artist wishes to give his signature away for free to some pretty girl and then wants to charge the next person double normal price, then that is up to the artist.  In the end, the "buyer" is the ONLY person who can decide whether or not to pay the price.  All real power is in the buyer's hands.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. You are absolutely correct.

The problem is that the creator is charging different prices even to the same individual, depending on information that is none of the creator's business! 

In addition...no one has a problem with a creator charging a lower price...for, say, that aforementioned "pretty girl" or a kid, or a friend, or whatnot. But what happens when that creator decides he or she wants to charge double because they don't like what the next person looks like...? Or worse, doesn't want to sign at all...?

Would there not be an uproar...? I think so. 

Can a person discriminate, based on any criteria, and charge whatever they want, to whomever they want, for whatever reason they want? Sure. But not without consequences. You charge double to someone because you don't like the way they look...you're gonna hear about it. And, if I can get my books signed at a discount just for bringing over a pretty girl...pretty girls are fairly common. I imagine I could convince one to come with me and practice her charms on the creator.

You know how to avoid people trying to "game the system"..?

Don't have a system to game.

11 minutes ago, Hudson said:

After all folks, this is a signature.  It is not food, clothing, or a roof over your head.

Just my 2 cents from a guy who doesn't even like signatures on his books.  lol 

Yes, lots and lots of opinions expressed by people who have no experience with the SS program, or creators within the SS program, or CGC about the program, or even interest in it at all.

Interesting, that...

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13 minutes ago, kav said:
15 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I love this thread! As stated before in another era when I was still watching educational television...

It's my naptime now, people will live on, carry on .... until next time same batthread same batchannel!

My threads have LEGS baby!

Legs for days!

 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM

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29 minutes ago, the blob said:

It saddens me that the nice conversations I had with john romita senior and Chris claremont getting books signed 25 years ago is now a financial transaction where they probably figure the fan will be flipping them. 

Eff that arsehole. I'm still salty I paid something like $35 (plus $20 for a copy of freaking X-Men #1 because I left all of mine at home) just to meet Claremont and shake his hand as thanks for his work I've adored all my life, and get a book signed by him in person (I'd paid stupid amounts of money to obtain various other sigs of his through Dynamic Forces and the like, over the years), and the arsehole literally didn't even acknowledge me, and just talked to Greg Capullo the whole time, then waived me on. When I tried to speak, I got waived again. Eff that guy. 

Dude owes me money. 

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6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The problem is that the creator is charging different prices even to the same individual, depending on information that is none of the creator's business! 

But they can make it their business and do, right?  

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