was I unethical... 2 2

[RockMyAmadeus]

As far as asking for advice goes....someone, a long time ago, said "...there is safety in many advisors." 

Sometimes, we can get wrapped up in the echo chambers of our own heads, and need perspective from others...whether those perspectives agree or disagree, it's still different perspectives from our own.

[Axmen]

I think you have to do whatever is consistent with your personal ethics. Sure the dealer has a responsibility to know what they are selling, but how is that different than if you paid with a $10 bill and the shop owner gave you change for a $20 - you can keep it and tell yourself, well he has a responsibility to pay attention to what amount of change he is giving, so Im just going to keep it.  Or, its going to bother you so you tell him, hey you made a mistake, "I only gave it you a $10."  We are all different.  Some people would keep the money and not give it a second thought.  But I agree its a fine line, because part of the fun of comic collecting is finding a great deal - a comic you know is a 9.4 that the dealer put out at an 8.0 price.  Bottom line, is you gotta live with yourself, getting a deal on a comic isn't worth dragging around guilt over. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

You're going to Hel for this.

Spoiler

 

[newshane]

5 hours ago, Chazgee said:

Should Rozanski have told Church he was sitting on over $1M worth of books?

 

Funny that I was thinking the same thing as I was scrolling down and...boom...I see your post.  

[Raze]

6 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I think it comes down to what you said.  If you said - “I think this is missing the centerfold” or “it says it’s missing a centerfold so it must be” then I think you are in the wrong.  If you asked him if it was missing a centerfold and he confirmed that he thought the centerfold was missing then you have a bit more wiggle room.  You were not 100% sure when you bought it so you could have been wrong on your suspicions.  The best thing would have been to discuss it with the dealer but it really is on him to know his books as the seller and not you as the buyer. 

on the back of the book it had a note "missing centerfold" i asked if it affected the story he opened it and said it didn't look like it affected a story. then he handed me the book and i counted the pages. i later got home and used digitalcomicmuseum.com and confirmed that it was complete AFTER i bought it.

[Raze]

6 hours ago, october said:

It's not the OP's job to tell a dealer how to properly research and sell his books. The dealer had ample opportunity to look up information on his own and he didn't bother. It would have been nice to let the dealer know what he suspected, but definitely not required, especially since he wasn't 100% sure. 

well i SHOULD have said something being at least 90% sure it was complete.i had bought from him earlier in the day and a few hours after i left i walked by and saw the book in question.

[Raze]

7 hours ago, D84 said:

Yes, you made an ethical mistake.  Honestly, we probably all have at one point or another.

The question is:  how do you plan to make this right?

it took me a few minutes to find out the dealers name and ive reached out...now I'm waiting for a response...

[Bronty]

Haven't read the whole thread but I think the right thing to do was tell the dealer you suspected he had erred in considering it to be missing the centerfold.

Now, not something worth losing sleep over.   Its a borderline situation, but ultimately you knew that you had a good chance of buying the book cheap on a misrepresentation to your favor, and you took advantage of that. 

Now, I've bought things cheap where I had the information advantage and lost zero sleep about it... people need to do their homework, etc.   But I consider representations to be different and something that should be common knowledge to both parties before the deal.   

 

[Raze]

6 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

You researched it more than the seller, figured out that it was not missing the center page, and did not disclose that before or even after buying. That is borderline unethical. They opened the book and were given a chance to verify the missing page. Not sure I understand how they failed to count pages or what led them to think the center page was missing.

I realize it is the principle involved but how much of a price difference would there be between missing center wrap and complete book in same condition?

I would not lose sleep over it- it wasn't like you tried to be deceitful. You could tell them about it, maybe offer some extra cash - but more than likely, they will be happy you came back and bought some more stuff instead. But telling them would be a step in the right direction.

i try my best to be upfront and honest in everything i do. and to be honest i don't know why i didn't notify them of the mistake. as ive mentioned ive informed dealers before matter of fact i caught 3 incomplete books at the same show with 2 different dealers and pointed it out.

as to price difference he had it priced at $30 OSPG 2.0 PRICE IS $41 it appears to be a 2.0-2.5 and a similar one sold on eBay in 2.0 for $40 I paid $25.

 

[Bronty]

OMG don't worry about it.   Seems like you paid a fair price either way.

[ADAMANTIUM]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

i try my best to be upfront and honest in everything i do. and to be honest i don't know why i didn't notify them of the mistake. as ive mentioned ive informed dealers before matter of fact i caught 3 incomplete books at the same show with 2 different dealers and pointed it out.

as to price difference he had it priced at $30 OSPG 2.0 PRICE IS $41 it appears to be a 2.0-2.5 and a similar one sold on eBay in 2.0 for $40 I paid $25.

 

Well  it had a sticker that said, missing centerfold, you asked him to check....he still said it was missing?

You did everything but beat him over the head with a coconut....

@01TheDude you said the centerfold may still be missing?  Any info, do we even know which book it is?

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by ADAMANTIUM

[Cliff R.]

Raze, I'm proud of you.  I'd buy a book from you sight unseen, just based on your word.  Now sell me something. 

[Raze]

6 hours ago, Sal said:

are you keeping the book? if you sell it, you could consider passing some of the windfall back to the guy, either in additional sales, or as a "make-good."

 

you can always contact the guy and tell him that you discovered that the book was in fact complete and that you feel that you want to make it up to him.  see what kind of response you get.  i would think that a dealer with whom i would want to do more business with would say to just forget about it and enjoy the book.  i know that's what i would tell you if i had sold it to you but i'm not a dealer and plus ymmv

ill be honest it is a book that even thought the last sale was only $40 i believe and have seen low grade copies of this book go for more. it also fits in the focus of my collection.

[01TheDude]

18 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Well  it had a sticker that said, missing centerfold, you asked him to check....he still said it was missing?

You did everything but beat him over the head with a coconut....

@01TheDude you said the centerfold may still be missing?  Any info, do we even know which book it is?

 

I didn't say it was missing-- just to check one more time to be sure.

But now that I know we are talking about a $5 difference, I think I would do nothing. The price was close enough and the dealer most likely doesn't care.

[Raze]

so i just talked to the dealer and he said what most of you said, thanks and enjoy the book.we had a good talking im going to be seeing him at a show in a few weeks.

 i know some might be thinking $5 what's the big deal but like i said this book in the grade has sold for $80+ in this grade, and the $40 eBay price was an outlier.

as to page counts it has 36 pages i count pages from cover to cover as 1 page then times by 2 that is how i was taught and it has never failed me, plus i used digitalcomicmuseum.com and saw the whole book there as well as gcd.com. @RockMyAmadeus @01TheDude

thanks to everyone for chiming in!!

Edited April 7, 2019 by Raze

[ADAMANTIUM]

13 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

33 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Well  it had a sticker that said, missing centerfold, you asked him to check....he still said it was missing?

You did everything but beat him over the head with a coconut....

@01TheDude you said the centerfold may still be missing?  Any info, do we even know which book it is?

 

I didn't say it was missing-- just to check one more time to be sure.

But now that I know we are talking about a $5 difference, I think I would do nothing. The price was close enough and the dealer most likely doesn't care.

Ya definitely wasn't trying to put words in your mouth...  was just hoping that there was info

 @Raze glad you pondered this question thou and that it worked out to everyone's satisfaction. Given my story earlier about my journey into mystery #89, I'd have been in the same boat had it gone a little differently. 

 

[Ride the Tiger]

Maybe the guy you purchased the book from also got it for a cheap price because that dude also thought the centerfold was missing. The comic has probably gone from one owner to another, each thinking the book had a missing centerfold. You were the 1st to actually count the pages. Now enjoy the book and forget about it.

[The Lions Den]

59 minutes ago, Raze said:

i try my best to be upfront and honest in everything i do. and to be honest i don't know why i didn't notify them of the mistake. as ive mentioned ive informed dealers before matter of fact i caught 3 incomplete books at the same show with 2 different dealers and pointed it out.

Have you ever thought of working for CGC? You seem to have a knack for it...  

[tv horror]

6 hours ago, Chazgee said:

Should Rozanski have told Church he was sitting on over $1M worth of books?

 

I'm near sure Edgar Church was already dead,   

[thunsicker]

1 minute ago, tv horror said:

I'm near sure Edgar Church was already dead,   

I’m positive he had just been shuffled off to a nursing home.