Is CGC out of interest for most comic book stores? 0

[Krismusic]

19 hours ago, Iceman399 said:

Leave Toronto and head to Pickering.  We at Guardian Comics have all the real slabs not these moderns that came out last week and are CGC 9.4s.

I bought a few books from you and it was great!  Thumbs up from me!

[Bookery]

I'll happily buy CGC books when they come into the shop.  But I only send off the rarest or most expensive books for grading myself.  The sweet spot for most collectors is in that $50 - $200 range for collectibles.  The cost for slabbing is just too high to make these worthwhile (contrary to popular belief... not everybody is a crook, and some of us have to pay a high percentage for the books we buy, leaving not a lot of room for adding even more expense for a small potential benefit).  I also have customers (most actually) that prefer raw books.  They like my grading.  They can decide themselves if they want to send them off themselves, have them signature witnessed, or just plain be able to look through them.  Dealers prefer my raw books because they trust my grades, and they can often have them pressed and graded to their benefit.  If I do that ahead of time, I lose those sales, and now the books are too expensive for the local market.  There are no hard and fast rules.  But barring an incredible high-grade collection, I can't imagine I would be sending large quantities of stuff off for grading.  Each market dictates how you handle things.

[Bookery]

14 hours ago, Cruzin' Thru Comics said:

I think comic shops that have a diamond accounts leave a lot of money on the table not dealing in grading books. Also, most shops I’ve seen in the Los Angeles area don’t usually have a big online presence. Not sure why. I do most of my sales online. For instance, I bought one copy of Batman Damned #1 from a local shop at cover price. I sent it to Ccc and it came back a 10.0. I sold it for $400 cash. I realize that a 10.0 is a rare occurrence but even so the shop had cases of that book. Even if only got 9.8’s you’d be making a bundle on them. I would be sending in select books or hot covers as soon as I could to Cgc and list them online. 

A 10 of pretty much anything will sell because it's a 10.  But I don't think I could give away Batman Damned in 9.8 around here... at least not 30 days out from its release.  And that's another problem not addressed here... a lot of those Diamond books you refer to are "hot" for only a brief period.  By the time books are returned from grading, it may already be too late to sell them... certainly to sell them for enough to cover grading, shipping, insurance costs.

As for mail order... I rarely do it.  And I don't do conventions.  I sell here in the shop, period.  But since my sell-through on all but the slowest drek, which wouldn't sell online either, is pretty near 100%... why would I?  If you grade correctly, price fairly, pay fairly, and have your stock organized... it's true that if you build it, they will come.  Yes, I might get higher prices online or at a show... but not enough to compensate for what I save on eBay and PayPal fees, convention fees, travel, hotels, etc.  I sell a lot to dealers, and let them handle those costs.  The model works for both me and them.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I remember when the first Batman: Damned #1 Gem Mint on eBay sold for $8k. Must be kicking him/her self.

I learned a long time ago not to go after the 1st sale. A gilded deck of playing cards (crowdfunded on Kickstarter) that hit eBay for the 1st time went for $900. I waited out the craze and got one for $300.

Patience is a virtue.

[Cruzin' Thru Comics]

2 hours ago, Bookery said:

A 10 of pretty much anything will sell because it's a 10.  But I don't think I could give away Batman Damned in 9.8 around here... at least not 30 days out from its release.  And that's another problem not addressed here... a lot of those Diamond books you refer to are "hot" for only a brief period.  By the time books are returned from grading, it may already be too late to sell them... certainly to sell them for enough to cover grading, shipping, insurance costs.

As for mail order... I rarely do it.  And I don't do conventions.  I sell here in the shop, period.  But since my sell-through on all but the slowest drek, which wouldn't sell online either, is pretty near 100%... why would I?  If you grade correctly, price fairly, pay fairly, and have your stock organized... it's true that if you build it, they will come.  Yes, I might get higher prices online or at a show... but not enough to compensate for what I save on eBay and PayPal fees, convention fees, travel, hotels, etc.  I sell a lot to dealers, and let them handle those costs.  The model works for both me and them.

From what I understand 3rd party grading came about due to the internet and online sales. I can see them not flying off the shelves in a shop or even at a convention. But you make my point by stating you don’t sell mail order/online. I just think shops are really not taking advantage of those sales opportunities. I’d be listing, packaging and shipping during down times in store. Also, I think most shop owners are pretty informed as to which books are going to be keys, hot covers, variants etc...  Not saying send a bunch in but a few select moderns fast tracked as soon as you got them. You’d have the first cgc books up on eBay and I think could do quite well. 

[mec3437]

I don't think the Bookery is hurting for business by not slabbing the hot, flavor of the week variant.

[sagekilz]

On 6/11/2019 at 9:57 AM, TwoPiece said:

What's "arrogant" about running your business the way you want to..?

"Trading" in graded comics isn't a profitable branch for most comic book stores. CGC comics are a niche market. A good business doesn't allow product to sit on a shelf for a niche buyer to come along whose willing to pay the listed price.

This.

There's no need to fall in love with your inventory, you'll never make money if you don't want to sell anything.

[Iceman399]

5 hours ago, Krishosein said:

I bought a few books from you and it was great!  Thumbs up from me!

Appreciate that.  

[chrisco37]

5 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

I remember when the first Batman: Damned #1 Gem Mint on eBay sold for $8k. Must be kicking him/her self.

I learned a long time ago not to go after the 1st sale. A gilded deck of playing cards (crowdfunded on Kickstarter) that hit eBay for the 1st time went for $900. I waited out the craze and got one for $300.

Patience is a virtue.

“Thus Endeth the Lesson”

[Cruzin' Thru Comics]

4 hours ago, mec3437 said:

I don't think the Bookery is hurting for business by not slabbing the hot, flavor of the week variant.

Seems to me not trying to make more sales and more profits is bad for any business 

[chrisco37]

Just now, Cruzin' Thru Comics said:

Seems to me not trying to make more sales and more profits is bad for any business 

He already explained himself.  He’d slab anything that’s super HG, but his main objective is turning inventory.  

Yeah, you can try and squeeze out a few extra bucks slabbing Silver Age books in the 7.0-9.0 range on a nice collection, but he’d be tying those books and the grading costs up for months.  He said he sells a decent amount to dealers (you know he must’ve bought at a good price to re-sell at that level).  Say what you want about dealers, their checks clear.  

What’s a better business model?  Buying a collection for 3k and selling it for 4K within a month in one shot, or slabbing the “good books”, paying that cost, waiting 3 mos. and selling them one by one for 6k?  

Different people will have different answers, of course.  Sometimes you can afford to wait, but “a bird in hand is worth two in the Bush”.

A few months back, I sold a good little batch of books to a dealer (maybe 40+ books).  I’m pretty sure I could’ve listed them here and, even considering the cheapos that frequent the marketplace, got about 1500-2000 more than I did.  

But, it would’ve been (at worst) 40 different sales/buyers/packages I’d have to deal with over the course of a few weeks+.  Instead, I took a little less and knocked it out in one fell swoop.  Sent the list/pics on a Saturday afternoon and had the check in hand the next day.  

[c_mkv]

On 6/11/2019 at 1:52 PM, Iceman399 said:

Leave Toronto and head to Pickering.  We at Guardian Comics have all the real slabs not these moderns that came out last week and are CGC 9.4s.

+1. It’s worth the drive to Pickering. Great people to deal with, great selection and flexible  with making a deal happen. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by c_mkv

[Tony S]

11 hours ago, Bookery said:

I'll happily buy CGC books when they come into the shop.  But I only send off the rarest or most expensive books for grading myself.  The sweet spot for most collectors is in that $50 - $200 range for collectibles.  The cost for slabbing is just too high to make these worthwhile (contrary to popular belief... not everybody is a crook, and some of us have to pay a high percentage for the books we buy, leaving not a lot of room for adding even more expense for a small potential benefit).  I also have customers (most actually) that prefer raw books.  They like my grading.  They can decide themselves if they want to send them off themselves, have them signature witnessed, or just plain be able to look through them.  Dealers prefer my raw books because they trust my grades, and they can often have them pressed and graded to their benefit.  If I do that ahead of time, I lose those sales, and now the books are too expensive for the local market.  There are no hard and fast rules.  But barring an incredible high-grade collection, I can't imagine I would be sending large quantities of stuff off for grading.  Each market dictates how you handle things.

This pretty much sums it up. I would add with emphasis that the vast majority of comic book collectors collect raw books. They prefer raw books. They want to read them at least once before filing away.  And they don't want to feel they had to pay extra for a slabbed copy. Which is actually a mistake. Slabbed books are not always more expensive, especially if you consider a lot of raw "NM" books actually are not 9.4. And that few collectors can spot professional restoration. 

But so anyway - as Bookery explained very well - most brick and mortar comic stores no incentive to have a lot of slabbed books. The exceptions being stuff that is very expensive and/or if the store has a significant online presence. 

The very question by the OP speaks to a point I mention here regularly. I loved slabbed books. But people that love slabbed books - especially here on this forum - loose sight of just what a TINY percentage of the hobby professionally graded and encapsulated books are. Third party professionally graded books make headlines with record breaking sales.  But the total volume of such is minuscule compared to the larger universe of raw books. Heck, the very best books in the hobby are still raw. The Dentist has never sent in his Edgar Church (Mile High) runs of Action 1-10 and Detective 27-40. 
 

[Phicks]

I see some discussion on here concerning "Raw price" versus "Slabbed price".  Please explain, because it doesn't make sense to me.  Say Overstreet says my 8.0 copy of Iron Man #1 is worth $500.   Are you trying to say it is worth more than $500 if I send it to CGC and they slab it as an 8.0?  All grading is subjective opinions.  To my point of view, CGC is trying to be the most consistent systematic grader, and that helps with selling a book over the internet.  But if I am at a comic convention, and there is a raw and GCG slabbed version of exactly the same comic, then I would expect them to be about the same price.

[theCapraAegagrus]

10 minutes ago, Phicks said:

I see some discussion on here concerning "Raw price" versus "Slabbed price".  Please explain, because it doesn't make sense to me.  Say Overstreet says my 8.0 copy of Iron Man #1 is worth $500.   Are you trying to say it is worth more than $500 if I send it to CGC and they slab it as an 8.0?  All grading is subjective opinions.  To my point of view, CGC is trying to be the most consistent systematic grader, and that helps with selling a book over the internet.  But if I am at a comic convention, and there is a raw and GCG slabbed version of exactly the same comic, then I would expect them to be about the same price.

My "Market is Insane" topic tries to tackle the literal insanity that you're trying to logically explain here.

Too many people buy the label and not the book. I'll pay more for CGC vintage books only for the peace of mind regarding restoration/completion checks by the professionals at CGC (and/or signatures witnessed).

The trend of overpaying for someone else's opinion on grade is going to die down at some point, or kill enthusiasm for much of the younger and less-lucrative generation(s).

[Jeffro.]

20 hours ago, Cruzin' Thru Comics said:

On 6/12/2019 at 12:39 PM, mec3437 said:

I don't think the Bookery is hurting for business by not slabbing the hot, flavor of the week variant.

Seems to me not trying to make more sales and more profits is bad for any business 

There's more than one way to do business and be profitable. Slabbing isn't the be-all and end-all. Sometimes I wonder how some people would have survived pre-CGC when you didn't have to have a grading company do all your thinking for you and press every comic regardless of whether it needs it or not. Of course, if the goal is to squeeze every single damned penny out of a comic, then I guess CCS/CGC is the way to go. I just hope CCS doesn't damage your comic or pop a staple during it's assembly line process

[Krismusic]

1 hour ago, Phicks said:

I see some discussion on here concerning "Raw price" versus "Slabbed price".  Please explain, because it doesn't make sense to me.  Say Overstreet says my 8.0 copy of Iron Man #1 is worth $500.   Are you trying to say it is worth more than $500 if I send it to CGC and they slab it as an 8.0?  All grading is subjective opinions.  To my point of view, CGC is trying to be the most consistent systematic grader, and that helps with selling a book over the internet.  But if I am at a comic convention, and there is a raw and GCG slabbed version of exactly the same comic, then I would expect them to be about the same price.

Some of this comes down to the fact that when CGC gives a grade its more understood in the industry as the correct condition of the book and so many other sellers might not have that same experience and their opinion on the condition of the book might not be exactly what CGC would give as a grade as a general rule of thumb I always knock down the person who I am buying from if its raw down 0.5 of a grade at min. So that graded book if it was priced at the same as the raw the chance you take buying a raw is greater than a graded book as it has its resto check done and its condition is certified by a trusted expert. Also there's a cost for this grading and putting it in a pretty piece of plastic etc.. so the graded book has a bit more cost attached. 

So because you know what your getting and avoiding restoration or different grading conditions the graded book tends to sell better than someone's opinion as if that guy was wrong about his grading and you grade it and it comes back at say 6 or restored, etc.. that value is definitely a lot lower. 

[Tony S]

6 hours ago, Phicks said:

I see some discussion on here concerning "Raw price" versus "Slabbed price".  Please explain, because it doesn't make sense to me.  Say Overstreet says my 8.0 copy of Iron Man #1 is worth $500.   Are you trying to say it is worth more than $500 if I send it to CGC and they slab it as an 8.0?  All grading is subjective opinions.  To my point of view, CGC is trying to be the most consistent systematic grader, and that helps with selling a book over the internet.  But if I am at a comic convention, and there is a raw and GCG slabbed version of exactly the same comic, then I would expect them to be about the same price.

I could write a wall of text in reply - and I don't have time for a wall of text.  But I'll try a reply that isn't so long. 

FIRST, the current OPG says your Iron Man 1 in 8.0 is worth $700.  And the OPG is a PRICE GUIDE. An average as reported by Overstreet's network of advisors across the country and probably other countries. That average is also rolling, Even if a book jumps up a lot one year, it's common for the full jump not to be reflected for a couple of years. 

There is no PRICE GUIDE for slabbed books. Most serious collectors are looking at GPA, which is not a guide. Instead it's real time collection of sold CGC graded books from most of the major auction houses. eBay, Heritage, Comic Connect for instance. GPA has averages and last sales easily displayed.  Right now, the GPA 12 month average for Iron Man 1 CGC 8.0 (31 recorded sales) is $801, the 90 day average is $861 (7 recorded sales) and the last recorded sale was $825. 

So by comparing the two, you would see that CGC graded 8.0's are selling for $100-$150 more than raw 8.0's. But you have to understand you are comparing apples to oranges.  The CGC graded 8.0 is going to be almost universally accepted as an 8.0.  The Raw 8.0 is in the eyes of the buyer and seller. 

AND THAT is the real point of professional grading and encapsulation.  It is not that CGC removes the subjectivity that is inherent in grading.  CGC is still humans grading books  It is still subjective. BUT - and this super important - CGC graded books represent a universally accepted grade.  And the encapsulation ensures that grade stays the same. It's an 8.0 when you buy. It's an 8.0 if and when you go to sell it. 

The lack of  third party, professional grading and encapsulation was holding the comic collecting hobby back. There was NEVER going to be million dollar books as long as the condition of a book could be lawyered to death.  And that's what happened, all the time.  You would purchase your Iron Man 1 in 8.0 one year. Next year selling it suddenly it was a 6.0. Or maybe the buyer believes they see a tiny spot of color touch.  Arguing condition was just another way to argue price. 

And that is why professionally graded books often (but not always) bring a premium. And the more expensive the book - the more these assurances tend to be worth to the buyers. Absolutely NO ONE will pay the 9.8 price for a RAW Iron Man 1.  It has to be graded and slabbed.  So if you have a 9.8 Iron Man 1, you are leaving a bunch of $$ on the table not getting it graded and slabbed. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Tony S

[Hollywood1892]

1 hour ago, Tony S said:

I could write a wall of text in reply - and I don't have time for a wall of text.  But I'll try a reply that isn't so long. 

FIRST, the current OPG says your Iron Man 1 in 8.0 is worth $700.  And the OPG is a PRICE GUIDE. An average as reported by Overstreet's network of advisors across the country and probably other countries. That average is also rolling, Even if a book jumps up a lot one year, it's common for the full jump not to be reflected for a couple of years. 

There is no PRICE GUIDE for slabbed books. Most serious collectors are looking at GPA, which is not a guide. Instead it's real time collection of sold CGC graded books from most of the major auction houses. eBay, Heritage, Comic Connect for instance. GPA has averages and last sales easily displayed.  Right now, the GPA 12 month average for Iron Man 1 CGC 8.0 (31 recorded sales) is $801, the 90 day average is $861 (7 recorded sales) and the last recorded sale was $825. 

So by comparing the two, you would see that CGC graded 8.0's are selling for $100-$150 more than raw 8.0's. But you have to understand you are comparing apples to oranges.  The CGC graded 8.0 is going to be almost universally accepted as an 8.0.  The Raw 8.0 is in the eyes of the buyer and seller. 

AND THAT is the real point of professional grading and encapsulation.  It is not that CGC removes the subjectivity that is inherent in grading.  CGC is still humans grading books  It is still subjective. BUT - and this super important - CGC graded books represent a universally accepted grade.  And the encapsulation ensures that grade stays the same. It's an 8.0 when you buy. It's an 8.0 if and when you go to sell it. 

The lack of  third party, professional grading and encapsulation was holding the comic collecting hobby back. There was NEVER going to be million dollar books as long as the condition of a book could be lawyered to death.  And that's what happened, all the time.  You would purchase your Iron Man 1 in 8.0 one year. Next year selling it suddenly it was a 6.0. Or maybe the buyer believes they see a tiny spot of color touch.  Arguing condition was just another way to argue price. 

And that is why professionally graded books often (but not always) bring a premium. And the more expensive the book - the more these assurances tend to be worth to the buyers. Absolutely NO ONE will pay the 9.8 price for a RAW Iron Man 1.  It has to be graded and slabbed.  So if you have a 9.8 Iron Man 1, you are leaving a bunch of $$ on the table not getting it graded and slabbed. 

I've always argued that there needs to be a legit price guide for slabbed books.

Albeit, Gocollect and GPA are decent analysis for your graded books,it seems people are setting the prices themselves.

A guy had a die 1 for 225 on Ebay,I showed him the gocollect FMV for it was considerably less,he swiftly changed his price and sold it to me for gocollects FMV,which I swiftly bought.

[kav]

Never seen a slabbed book in a comics shop, myself.