Curious about GPA Avengers 4 9.6 signed by Lee/Kirby
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While studying trends on Avengers 4, this line on GPAnalysis stood out to me.

I assume this is a (C) conserved universal blue label as the 'C" precedes the numbers 9.6 in blue. No mention of it being a signature series is mentioned, yet the book is credited with being signed by Lee and Kirby, both of which I assume are unwitnessed signatures, Kirby's demise preceding CGC's startup.

Is this unusual? I don't remember seeing Kirby ever credited as an authenticated signature on a CGC graded book, signature series or other type of label. Error? Or just rarely mentioned?

C ( 9.6 )  Signed by Lee/Kirby  -    (1) $9,000    (1) $9,000    -   $9,000  Aug-2018
Edited by James J Johnson

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wth

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8 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

While studying trends on Avengers 4, this line on GPAnalysis stood out to me.

I assume this is a (C) conserved universal blue label as the 'C" precedes the numbers 9.6 in blue. No mention of it being a signature series is mentioned, yet the book is credited with being signed by Lee and Kirby, both of which I assume are unwitnessed signatures, Kirby's demise preceding CGC's startup.

Is this unusual? I don't remember seeing Kirby ever credited as an authenticated signature on a CGC graded book, signature series or other type of label. Error? Or just rarely mentioned?

C ( 9.6 )  Signed by Lee/Kirby  -    (1) $9,000    (1) $9,000    -   $9,000  Aug-2018

I'm sure the book just has. "Lee and Kirby signed in marker or pen on cover or 1st page" on the label. there is no way it is "signature series" with a Kirby authenticated

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That's what I figured....

GPA just sets it apart, probably because it is a "factor" for the sale and CGC put notations on the label.....

GPA I guess doesn't just look for "yellow labels"...

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5 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

That's what I figured....

GPA just sets it apart, probably because it is a "factor" for the sale and CGC put notations on the label.....

GPA I guess doesn't just look for "yellow labels"...

Then technically, they're not signatures (authenticated as artist signatures). They're names written on the splash page, although they may very well be authentic. This is the type of book that should have a COA, the written names authenticated and imaged for the COA prior to slabbing. Although the label still wouldn't declare them as authentic signatures, the separately issued COA (another company that authenticates) would capture the image of the splash page and authenticate them.

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4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Then technically, they're not signatures (authenticated as artist signatures). They're names written on the splash page, although they may very well be authentic. This is the type of book that should have a COA, the written names authenticated and imaged for the COA prior to slabbing. Although the label still wouldn't declare them as authentic signatures, the separately issued COA (another company that authenticates) would capture the image of the splash page and authenticate them.

Except a COA generally means "This item is absolutely fake"

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6 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Then technically, they're not signatures (authenticated as artist signatures). They're names written on the splash page, although they may very well be authentic. This is the type of book that should have a COA, the written names authenticated and imaged for the COA prior to slabbing. Although the label still wouldn't declare them as authentic signatures, the separately issued COA (another company that authenticates) would capture the image of the splash page and authenticate them.

lol take it up with GPA? :foryou: they're on the boards, CGC didn't claim them as "signatures" on the label..... Name Written is all they say, neither GPA nor CGC is claiming authenticity, it is just noted....

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and I'm curious what is the big deal?

If CGC notes it, of course GPA is going to set it apart, same as they now do for mark jeweler's... (shrug) 

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I also think that it is funny that CGC only does this with legible hand writing....

There are signatures that are like ??? to who it is, but Stan Lee and Kirby are the main one's people talk about

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13 minutes ago, kav said:

Except a COA generally means "This item is absolutely fake"

Then I guess the opposite of that and for CGC to get the label right, would be to put on the label:

Definitely not signed by Stan Lee or Jack Kirby

I'm just being light hearted, but some covers have "ink in book or on cover", so this is basically the same thing I guess? just the names are legible :makepoint: ?

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6 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

lol take it up with GPA? :foryou: they're on the boards, CGC didn't claim them as "signatures" on the label..... Name Written is all they say, neither GPA nor CGC is claiming authenticity, it is just noted....

"signed by Lee/Kirby" implies authenticity as all the signature series books also state "signed by___  and they are all irrefutably authentic as they are all withnessed".

This example gives the signatures on this book exactly the same credence as all of the witnessed signature books.

I have no dog in the race either way, but this is annotated the same way as a Sgnt series book. Seems very odd as unwitnessed signatures are not authenticated by CGC.

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Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

Then I guess the opposite of that and for CGC to get the label right, would be to put on the label:

Definitely not signed by Stan Lee or Jack Kirby

I'm just being light hearted, but some covers have "ink in book or on cover", so this is basically the same thing I guess? just the names are legible :makepoint: ?

If it had a COA then yes I strongly urge they do that.  No COA is another matter.

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2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

"signed by Lee/Kirby" implies authenticity as all the signature series books also state "signed by___  and they are all irrefutably authentic as they are all withnessed".

This example gives the signatures on this book exactly the same credence as all of the witnessed signature books.

I have no dog in the race either way, but this is annotated the same way as a Sgnt series book. Seems very odd as unwitnessed signatures are not authenticated by CGC.

I agree they should not use that wording.

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1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

"signed by Lee/Kirby" implies authenticity as all the signature series books also state "signed by___  and they are all irrefutably authentic as they are all withnessed".

This example gives the signatures on this book exactly the same credence as all of the witnessed signature books.

I have no dog in the race either way, but this is annotated the same way as a Sgnt series book. Seems very odd as unwitnessed signatures are not authenticated by CGC.

I get what your saying, but read the label again, it falls under "conservation" followed by a colon that further explains the reasoning for the "conservation"....

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Just now, kav said:

I agree they should not use that wording.

 

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

I get what your saying, but read the label again, it falls under "conservation" followed by a colon that further explains the reasoning for the "conservation"....

Plus Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are in quotes lol :roflmao: 

If I did air quotes to say something was real in person to sell it to you, do you really think you'd be giving this a 2nd thought as to what I mean :shy: 

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2 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I get what your saying, but read the label again, it falls under "conservation" followed by a colon that further explains the reasoning for the "conservation"....

I think he's referencing the GPA blurb not the slab verbage

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2 minutes ago, kav said:

I think he's referencing the GPA blurb not the slab verbage

Oh :sorry: @gpanalysis why say signed if:

Plus Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are in quotes lol :roflmao: 

If I did air quotes to say something was real in person to sell it to you, do you really think you'd be giving this a 2nd thought as to what I mean :shy: 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM

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1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

Plus Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are in quotes lol :roflmao: 

If I did air quotes to say something was real in person to sell it to you, do you really think you'd be giving this a 2nd thought as to what I mean :shy: 

But if we don't have the label for interpretation, a GP line that includes the language, "Signed by Lee/Kirby" is assigning the same type of guarantee that the book is signed as can be ascribed to any CGC comic with a witnessed signature that includes that same language.

Signed by Lee/Kirby does not mean the same thing as Lee/Kirby written on splash page. Especially referencing a CGC graded comic..

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Just now, James J Johnson said:

But if we don't have the label for interpretation, a GP line that includes the language, "Signed by Lee/Kirby" is assigning the same type of guarantee that the book is signed as can be ascribed to any CGC comic with a witnessed signature that includes that same language.

Signed by Lee/Kirby does not mean the same thing as Lee/Kirby written on splash page. Especially referencing a CGC graded comic..

ya I get it now :sorry: I don't understand why gpa would mix it with a grey area..... if gpa would just put at least "conservation" next to it, it might help :foryou: 

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