paypal's greed
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4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

That sucks but why should PayPal shareholders pay for two transactions and eat those costs?

Because it's usually a marginal activity, and they have plenty of other ways to generate fees. If they can't do it without eating the cost of a refund, they shouldn't be in the business. It's a bush league move that makes them look like small fries, and desperate to make a buck by hook or crook.

Edited by comicwiz

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24 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

Because it's usually a marginal activity, and they have plenty of other ways to generate fees. If they can't do it without eating the cost of a refund, they shouldn't be in the business. It's a bush league move that makes them look like small fries, and desperate to make a buck by hook or crook.

Like that charming currency conversion fee they keep raising?While we're griping about them,I'll throw out my rant.PP can suckit

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It's the cost.of doing business. I assume you have worked all the other costs into your prices. If you refund one percent of your transactions,  it's negligible. If you are refunding ten percent of them, PayPal isn't the problem. If it somewhere in between, you build the cost in.

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2 hours ago, rsouxlja7 said:

I very rarely have to issue refunds for a return

I hope you took the precautions of knocking on wood immediately after thinking and writing this! There is a specific set of demons that just lies in wait, anticipating words like these from those with unblemished records. The dulcet thumps of gingerly knocking on wood is the only means available to lull them to sleep just long enough to afflict them with amnesia! hm

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12 minutes ago, shadroch said:

It's the cost.of doing business. I assume you have worked all the other costs into your prices. If you refund one percent of your transactions,  it's negligible. If you are refunding ten percent of them, PayPal isn't the problem. If it somewhere in between, you build the cost in.

Leakage. A seller should accept there will be leakage from any one of a number of unexpected events. For a buyer, it's galling.

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5 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:
18 minutes ago, shadroch said:

It's the cost.of doing business. I assume you have worked all the other costs into your prices. If you refund one percent of your transactions,  it's negligible. If you are refunding ten percent of them, PayPal isn't the problem. If it somewhere in between, you build the cost in.

Leakage. A seller should accept there will be leakage from any one of a number of unexpected events. For a buyer, it's galling.

Not trying to twist words, but how does on "build the cost in?"

In this situation, I have the payment by the buyer, it's the only money in PayPal which is minus the 3 % PayPal fee...

If then a refund is issued, what "costs" can be built in to secure that the 3% doesn't come out of pocket?

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2 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Not trying to twist words, but how does on "build the cost in?"

In this situation, I have the payment by the buyer, it's the only money in PayPal which is minus the 3 % PayPal fee...

If then a refund is issued, what "costs" can be built in to secure that the 3% doesn't come out of pocket?

I guess it's just the costs of doing business.... with PayPal lol

 

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2 hours ago, comicwiz said:

Because it's usually a marginal activity, and they have plenty of other ways to generate fees. If they can't do it without eating the cost of a refund, they shouldn't be in the business. It's a bush league move that makes them look like small fries, and desperate to make a buck by hook or crook.

gonna totally second this opinion. it only makes paypal look incredibly cheap and desperate. bush league all the way. 

i only rarely have to issue refunds. last print sale, one customer accidentally ordered 5 prints instead of one, claiming he didnt really understand the shopping cart. these were $200 prints each, so it was an $800 refund. thats $24 i will have to pay next time someone makes a bonehead move like that on one of my sales. i certainly will explore other options going forward. 

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1 hour ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Not trying to twist words, but how does on "build the cost in?"

In this situation, I have the payment by the buyer, it's the only money in PayPal which is minus the 3 % PayPal fee...

If then a refund is issued, what "costs" can be built in to secure that the 3% doesn't come out of pocket?

You're paying Paypal 3% for the cost of processing that transaction, that is, the cost of their collecting that money for you, whether it's a success or not. Whether you get to keep it or have to return it That's the cost of doing business with paypal per transaction. About 3% of the gross of each transaction. It's an expense of doing business. Much like rent for a Brick and mortar. You're paying the same rent whether you open the doors for business that month or keep them closed to the public.

 

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1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

You're paying Paypal 3% for the cost of processing that transaction, that is, the cost of their collecting that money for you, whether it's a success or not. Whether you get to keep it or have to return it That's the cost of doing business with paypal per transaction. About 3% of the gross of each transaction. It's an expense of doing business. Much like rent for a Brick and mortar. You're paying the same rent whether you open the doors for business that month or keep them closed to the public.

 

Its no way shape or form the same. you dont pay a variable rent based on what you sell. Paypal charges 30 cents per transaction regardless of the total value. That has never been refunded and people understand cost of doing business. Now they are wanting to keep the 3% on top of that. 

 

Everyone arguing they are processing transactions seem to miss the fact its literally the same amount of work in collecting $10K as it is collecting $10, but in one case if the buyer decides to return the item just cuz, the seller is out $300 through no fault of their own.

Is there work involved, sure but when its a percentage charge its them wanting a cut of the profits, and when there is none, they shouldnt profit nonetheless. They already get to keep the fixed fee to cover the processing costs.

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1 hour ago, Rezin1234 said:

Its no way shape or form the same. you dont pay a variable rent based on what you sell. Paypal charges 30 cents per transaction regardless of the total value. That has never been refunded and people understand cost of doing business. Now they are wanting to keep the 3% on top of that. 

 

Everyone arguing they are processing transactions seem to miss the fact its literally the same amount of work in collecting $10K as it is collecting $10, but in one case if the buyer decides to return the item just cuz, the seller is out $300 through no fault of their own.

Is there work involved, sure but when its a percentage charge its them wanting a cut of the profits, and when there is none, they shouldnt profit nonetheless. They already get to keep the fixed fee to cover the processing costs.

Absolutely more exposure for paypal than 30 cents per transaction! :whatthe: 

Now this is hypothetical and I'm using Berk as an example because we discussed their taking in $118,000 "for charity" last month. But say paypal facilitated $118,000 worth of sales for them last month for them, the money went where it was supposed to, to whatever account Berk has those funds transferred to in those 100% charity auctions. Over a period of 2 weeks, they gradually spend the money through a third account, having been disbursed from the charity account. A charity investing to amplify their donations, let's say. The $118,000 worth of books they bought through another account have almost all come in, and any money left in the account that didn't go to purchase more inventory has dwindled to almost nothing. Now Berk is holding $118,000 of product, almost all delivered after two weeks of buying, and almost nothing in cash in either paypal account, or a third for buying.  But let's say while doing this, Berk has not sent out any of the books that the winners paid for! Let's even assume that Berk might answer questions of "Have you sent out my books yet?  by stringing buyers along, "I'm so sorry. An unexpected death in the family. I'll get them out to you as soon as I'm back in town, you can count on that". But the tracking info never comes, the complaints start coming in to paypal and ebay and guess what.... too late for paypal to recover $118,000 to pay back the claims for buyers who did not het their material, many of which funded the purchase with credit cards. Now paypal is on the hook for some, a lot, or most of that missing $118,000!

No. Paypal's exposure is a lot more than 30 cents per transaction.  I'm sure that there are many instances where paypal becomes a victim of a non-responsive seller in having to step in an reimburse once a seller's accounts are empty and their funding sources as well. .

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6 hours ago, porcupine48 said:

Like that charming currency conversion fee they keep raising?While we're griping about them,I'll throw out my rant.PP can suckit

Is it long and skinny, or short and fat?  Just curious...,

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PayPal is a virtual bank. Banks have fees.

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Damn capitalist. Always sticking their grubby fingers into my ill gotten gains. We hatz them, we doez. 

 

I would either accept it as a cost of business and pass along your anticipated costs to all your customers or make it clear in your refund policy that any fees occurred are on the buyer.  If you are giving enough  refunds that 3% more is going to effect your bottom line, tighten your belt a little. 

 

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Alternative policies:

Accept checks only.  Or offer only some other non paypal method - whether Square, venmo,  or whatever alternate method arises, probably that offers some buyer protection.  Add a 4% restocking fee policy for all returns.  Change policy to "no refunds unless material error in description, in accordance with recent change in paypal policy."

Probably others that don't spring to mind yet.

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14 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Given, that by using the service, you're giving them complete control over your money, and permission to reach into multiple accounts and in some cases your designated bank account (see google articles on suspensions and account freezes) their not refunding the 3% or so transaction fee should be the absolute least of a Paypal user's causes for concern. :eek: 

 

Exactly

And if Captitol One can be circumvented.....

Or if they have a disgruntled worker with level 5 security clearance

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6 hours ago, shadroch said:

Damn capitalist. Always sticking their grubby fingers into my ill gotten gains. We hatz them, we doez. 

 

I would either accept it as a cost of business and pass along your anticipated costs to all your customers or make it clear in your refund policy that any fees occurred are on the buyer.  If you are giving enough  refunds that 3% more is going to effect your bottom line, tighten your belt a little. 

 

If I recall, Shadroch, you lied about your dog being a comfort dog to get a break on rent. Damn capitalist want to stick their grubby fingers everywhere.

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Paypal is in for a ton of hurt. When the managed payments rolls for all sellers people will not be forced to use paypal for their transactions, it's going on now for some eBay purchases. Once people can use Zelle or debit card, like on Amazon, paypal will be standing out in the cold with their fees and rotten services.

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1 hour ago, nochips said:

Paypal is in for a ton of hurt. When the managed payments rolls for all sellers people will not be forced to use paypal for their transactions, it's going on now for some eBay purchases. Once people can use Zelle or debit card, like on Amazon, paypal will be standing out in the cold with their fees and rotten services.

Why do you think they're doing this? When they had an exclusive with Ebay, they made up for the small losses from returns on the sheer volume of transactions. Now that they're being cut out of a market that was probably 80% of their business, they need to lock down some of that revenue.

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