THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[D84]

33 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Anyway, the comic book movie industry has finally built a better heroine and her name is Carol Danvers.

Wonder Woman and Black Widow are much better heroes.

[▫️]

1 hour ago, D84 said:

Wonder Woman and Black Widow are much better heroes.

60 seconds of Wasp and her sacrifice was more impressive than anything in CM. 

 

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, D84 said:

Wonder Woman and Black Widow are much better heroes.

Care to elaborate why they’re better heroes? Let me guess, their acting is soooo much better?

[▫️]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Care to elaborate why they’re better heroes? Let me guess, their acting is soooo much better?

Nope. They have personality. 

[@therealsilvermane]

3 minutes ago, Grails said:

60 seconds of Wasp and her sacrifice was more impressive than anything in CM. 

 

Ohhh, but according to the SDCC panel above, the original MCU Wasp fails the “female character dies to further  a  male character’s story (Hank Pym)” trope. Thanks for playing, though.

[▫️]

41 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Ohhh, but according to the SDCC panel above, the original MCU Wasp fails the “female character dies to further  a  male character’s story (Hank Pym)” trope. Thanks for playing, though.

 You’re talking to the wrong guy, I’m unapologetically male. I still felt more for a CGI character with her face covered in that moment than I did in any scene in CM. I’m in the minority though cause you know.. a billion dollars. Maybe one day Taika Waititi will direct Larson in a CM movie and then I’ll love her!

Edited July 26, 2020 by Grails

[D84]

31 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Care to elaborate why they’re better heroes? Let me guess, their acting is soooo much better?

Wonder Woman seemed to truly care and be selfless.  She isn't trying to prove anything to anyone.

Black Widow is trying to redeem herself and has a strong sense of loyalty. 

[@therealsilvermane]

11 hours ago, Grails said:

Nope. They have personality. 

Yes, I know a good personality is a very important trait for a woman to have. If we mens can’t stands a woman, then it’s off to the corral for her. 
However, when I said Carol Danvers was a better built heroine, I was referring to a lead female Comic book movie hero who might meet the standards listed by the SDCC panel above. In my view, Carol Danvers meets that standard. Now, one might be able to argue that Carol isn’t fully developed as a complete character, but neither is the DCEU Wonder Woman or even Black Widow, as these franchises now take several movies to fully flesh out these lead characters. In particular, the MCU does that. Black Widow’s story won’t really be finished until we see her solo movie. Carol Danvers has 5 movies left on her contract.

”But her personality!” yes, I know, but again, I was trying to meet the women’s panel standard, not us mens.

[Bosco685]

35 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes, I know a good personality is a very important trait for a woman to have. If we mens can’t stands a woman, then it’s off to the corral for her. 
However, when I said Carol Danvers was a better built heroine, I was referring to a lead female Comic book movie hero who might meet the standards listed by the SDCC panel above. In my view, Carol Danvers meets that standard. Now, one might be able to argue that Carol isn’t fully developed as a complete character, but neither is the DCEU Wonder Woman or even Black Widow, as these franchises now take several movies to fully flesh out these lead characters. In particular, the MCU does that. Black Widow’s story won’t really be finished until we see her solo movie. Carol Danvers has 5 movies left on her contract.

”But her personality!” yes, I know, but again, I was trying to meet the women’s panel standard, not us mens.

Peggy Carter appeared in Captain America: The First Avenger, Marvel One-Shot: Agent Carter, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. show, Agent Carter show (2 seasons), Avengers: Age of Ultron, Ant-Man and Avengers: Endgame. And yet with all those appearances, her consistent character traits have been a strong woman who never backed down, co-founded S.H.I.E.L.D. and could stand toe-to-toe with her male counterparts. Probably one of the longest and most frequent Marvel roles across TV and movies.

We didn't need to see a finished story in order to comprehend what she was about, and what she believed in. Not that every character will be that straightforward out of the gate. Your belief that the best in Carol Danvers is later down the road, so of course everyone must appreciate her now because when that time comes it is going to be amazing is understood - but not reality for everyone. It's okay that they didn't care for these early appearances and portrayals. But to force appreciation through mocking people that didn't care for her, or categorizing them as anti-feminists and desiring submissive female characters gets old after a while. Like probably 5 months ago.

[Keys_Collector]

Brie Larson is a great actress but her performances in the MCU so far have been overwhelming.  I'm going to place that onto the directors/writers/etc. because she has shown her acting range in other movies in the same way I'd do that for Jared Leto in Suicide Squad.  I'm not going to let her personal comments previously sway my personal opinion on her acting skills as many have already done.  Judge her and the movies for what they are without the context of bringing in biases on her views as a person.  If you like it great, if you didn't then thatch fine as well.  I'm not even sure why some people keep commenting on this thread when they have zero interest in Captain Marvel 2.  I'm looking forward to it like I do with any upcoming MCU movie as it's bringing more comic characters and stories to life regardless of if I care about the characters or not.

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 hours ago, D84 said:

Wonder Woman and Black Widow are much better heroes.

Add The Wasp to this list.

[@therealsilvermane]

22 hours ago, D84 said:

Wonder Woman seemed to truly care and be selfless.  She isn't trying to prove anything to anyone.

Black Widow is trying to redeem herself and has a strong sense of loyalty. 

"Wonder Woman seemed to truly care and be selfless" Hey, that sounds like someone else I know! It reminds me of that one time Carol Danvers seemed to truly care when she started crying in front of Talos' Skrull family and apologized for not realizing the Kree were the true bad guys in their scenario. And also that one time Carol Danvers selflessly sacrificed herself to blow up the core so Yonn Rogg and the Kree wouldn't get it.

"She isn't trying to prove anything to anyone."  Diana actually was totally trying to prove herself worthy of being a warrior to everyone when her mammy wouldn't let her play reindeer games with the other Amazons!  On the other hand, Carol literally says "I have nothing to prove to you" to Yonn-Rogg when he says she must prove herself worthy in a fist fight with him.

"Black Widow is trying to redeem herself and has a strong sense of loyalty." Like that one time Carol tried to redeem herself for her past deeds by leaving her Earth home a second time to help the Skrulls find a planet to live on? And remember that time in those Infinity Gem movies when Nick Fury called Carol on that pager and she showed a strong sense of loyalty by crossing the universe to answer her friend's call?

So, is it the acting then?

[Bosco685]

28 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Spoiler

 

"Wonder Woman seemed to truly care and be selfless" Hey, that sounds like someone else I know! It reminds me of that one time Carol Danvers seemed to truly care when she started crying in front of Talos' Skrull family and apologized for not realizing the Kree were the true bad guys in their scenario. And also that one time Carol Danvers selflessly sacrificed herself to blow up the core so Yonn Rogg and the Kree wouldn't get it.

"She isn't trying to prove anything to anyone."  Diana actually was totally trying to prove herself worthy of being a warrior to everyone when her mammy wouldn't let her play reindeer games with the other Amazons!  On the other hand, Carol literally says "I have nothing to prove to you" to Yonn-Rogg when he says she must prove herself worthy in a fist fight with him.

"Black Widow is trying to redeem herself and has a strong sense of loyalty." Like that one time Carol tried to redeem herself for her past deeds by leaving her Earth home a second time to help the Skrulls find a planet to live on? And remember that time in those Infinity Gem movies when Nick Fury called Carol on that pager and she showed a strong sense of loyalty by crossing the universe to answer her friend's call?

 

So, is it the acting then?

I see the mocking thing is in play again. Let's try this a different way: a helpful comparison video how the MCU took the same concept yet didn't develop the solo character effectively.

The over-explaining versus actually demonstrating in the film is part of what allowed some audience members to disconnect from the film. Which is a shame, as everything was there to make this a great film for most viewers.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bosco685

[D84]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

I see the mocking thing is in play again. Let's try this a different way: a helpful comparison video how the MCU took the same concept yet didn't develop the solo character effectively.

The over-explaining versus actually demonstrating in the film is part of what allowed some audience members to disconnect from the film. Which is a shame, as everything was there to make this a great film for most viewers.

At this point, I don't think logic or reason will work with this guy.

Feel free to keep trying to explaining to @therealsilvermane. I'm putting 'em on ignore.

Edited July 27, 2020 by D84

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, D84 said:

At this point, I don't think logic or reason will work with this guy.

Feel free to keep trying to explaining to @attherealsilvermane. I'm putting 'em on ignore.

I literally use logic, reason, and concrete examples in most of my rebuttles to Captain Marvel hate. Sorry if you can't handle a little sarcasm.

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I see the mocking thing is in play again. Let's try this a different way: a helpful comparison video how the MCU took the same concept yet didn't develop the solo character effectively.

The over-explaining versus actually demonstrating in the film is part of what allowed some audience members to disconnect from the film. Which is a shame, as everything was there to make this a great film for most viewers.

I liked Captain America the First Avenger. However, I've always thought the movie's characters were a little too cartoony. Yes, Steve Rogers' character of this movie is so easy to identify because he's a caricature of American patriotism. He's pretty simple. It is a comic book movie, so nothing wrong with that, but I prefer a little more complexity to my characters (which is what Winter Soldier brought to the mix). Also, while I liked The First Avenger, what I really liked was the Steve Rogers in boot camp part. After he leaves boot camp and becomes a Super Soldier, the story becomes a little meh. Steve Rogers' character arc basically ends after he rescues the 107th and is recognized as a hero.

The Screen Rant guy tries to apply the same cartoon analysis to Captain Marvel,  which doesn't work. He wants to know who Carol Danvers is with the first scene of the movie when the point of the movie's story and structure is to discover who Carol is over the course of the movie. It's kind of a mystery movie and the mystery is Carol. And who says the "emotion" Yonn Rogg won't shut up about in the movie has to be hotheadedness or brashness? She's not Maverick from Top Gun. Through the course of the movie, we learn she's a real hero (we see her do it in present time and we see her hero moment in the past), we learn and see she's a friend (even more than Steve and Bucky in First Avenger), and we see she can empathize with people, including a little girl she hardly remembers and an alien race she's been brainwashed to believe are evil terrorists. That's what brings out Carol's character, the friends she makes and re-makes throughout the movie: Fury, Maria, Monica, and Talos and his family. And perhaps that is what Yonn Rogg was afraid of, rather than being a hothead which is what Screen Rant guy wanted to see.

Also, Captain Marvel had a real story that started at the beginning and ended when the credits rolled. Captain America's story was pretty much over after he rescues the 107th. Most everything after that is a so-so war movie montage until he sacrifices himself at the end Stairway to Heaven(the British movie)/9-11 style. In fact, Captain Marvel is one of the few MCU movies, Thor is another example, that has an tight story structure from start to finish rather than a story that's composed of pieces and parts and digressions.

Edited July 28, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I liked Captain America the First Avenger. However, I've always thought the movie's characters were a little too cartoony. Yes, Steve Rogers' character of this movie is so easy to identify because he's a caricature of American patriotism. He's pretty simple. It is a comic book movie, so nothing wrong with that, but I prefer a little more complexity to my characters (which is what Winter Soldier brought to the mix). Also, while I liked The First Avenger, what I really liked was the Steve Rogers in boot camp part. After he leaves boot camp and becomes a Super Soldier, the story becomes a little meh. Steve Rogers' character arc basically ends after he rescues the 107th and is recognized as a hero.

The Screen Rant guy tries to apply the same cartoon analysis to Captain Marvel,  which doesn't work. He wants to know who Carol Danvers is with the first scene of the movie when the point of the movie's story and structure is to discover who Carol is over the course of the movie. It's kind of a mystery movie and the mystery is Carol. And who says the "emotion" Yonn Rogg won't shut up about in the movie has to be hotheadedness or brashness? She's not Maverick from Top Gun. Through the course of the movie, we learn she's a real hero (we see her do it in present time and we see her hero moment in the past), we learn and see she's a friend (even more than Steve and Bucky in First Avenger), and we see she can empathize with people, including a little girl she hardly remembers and an alien race she's been brainwashed to believe are evil terrorists. That's what brings out Carol's character, the friends she makes and re-makes throughout the movie: Fury, Maria, Monica, and Talos and his family. And perhaps that is what Yonn Rogg was afraid of, rather than being a hothead which is what Screen Rant guy wanted to see.

Also, Captain Marvel had a real story that started at the beginning and ended when the credits rolled. Captain America's story was pretty much over after he rescues the 107th. Most everything after that is a so-so war movie montage until he sacrifices himself at the end Stairway to Heaven(the British movie)/9-11 style. In fact, Captain Marvel is one of the few MCU movies, Thor is another example, that has an tight story structure from start to finish rather than a story that's composed of pieces and parts and digressions.

So the First Avenger was just patriotic, cartoony storytelling while Captain Marvel is a solidly told story and character portrayal?

I think you are so fixated on wanting to prove your devotion to this film, you miss out on the foundational reality of how the MCU established its character-building mold that works across the franchise. Just with Captain Marvel they didn't completely establish the foundations of the character - the "show me more than telling me more" part of the comparison video. That's probably the key to those disconnected from this being one of the best MCU films. No matter the Infinity War-Endgame large bump experienced.

It's the reality of the situation. And why the directors are switched out going forward. They didn't land the long-standing MCU punch.

[theCapraAegagrus]

11 hours ago, D84 said:

At this point, I don't think logic or reason will work with this guy.

Feel free to keep trying to explaining to @therealsilvermane. I'm putting 'em on ignore.

His/her devotion to such a mediocre film is truly puzzling.

In the context of the MCU, it's simply not a good movie. Acting, directing, and writing are all to blame. The straw-man of her poor PR is just irrelevant. It doesn't help the 'aura' of the movie, but it ultimately doesn't hurt it, either.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:15 PM, Bosco685 said:

So the First Avenger was just patriotic, cartoony storytelling while Captain Marvel is a solidly told story and character portrayal?

I think you are so fixated on wanting to prove your devotion to this film, you miss out on the foundational reality of how the MCU established its character-building mold that works across the franchise. Just with Captain Marvel they didn't completely establish the foundations of the character - the "show me more than telling me more" part of the comparison video. That's probably the key to those disconnected from this being one of the best MCU films. No matter the Infinity War-Endgame large bump experienced.

It's the reality of the situation. And why the directors are switched out going forward. They didn't land the long-standing MCU punch.

Yeah, IMO Captain Marvel has a better told story than First Avenger. Vers has a goal, she follows it, and her expectations are twisted. A simple tight story with more complex characters. First Avenger had a story that was a bit all over the place with simple characters. I prefer the former. Joss Whedon didn't do Captain America any real favors in Avengers, either. He was the conservative jerk to Stark's cool character. I didn't really care about Steve Rogers until Winter Soldier.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:39 PM, Bosco685 said:

I see the mocking thing is in play again. Let's try this a different way: a helpful comparison video how the MCU took the same concept yet didn't develop the solo character effectively.

The over-explaining versus actually demonstrating in the film is part of what allowed some audience members to disconnect from the film. Which is a shame, as everything was there to make this a great film for most viewers.

So why just the Captain America vs Captain Marvel comparison? Does the video author compare Captain America to other MCU movies to show how they pale in comparison? Where's the Cap America vs Incredible Hulk comparison? Is he going to size up Cap against Ant-Man's movie? Dr. Strange? No, he singles out Captain Marvel, the first female led solo MCU film. Is it necessary to even compare one MCU film against the other in order to demean the other? Can't these movies just be their own thing and not have to be just like all the rest? I don't need Carol Danvers falling on a grenade in order to tell me all I need to know about her. I prefer the mystery. I liked learning a little about her as the movie went on. With First Avenger, I was bored after the boot camp story because, yeah, I learned all I needed to know about Steve Rogers there. The rest was a so-so action movie.