Inaccuracies of GPA
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81 posts in this topic

I'm sure there are people more cynical about the census and GPA in general, but like many I find it to be a helpful resource. That said.... I often find it frustrating that some sales are recorded, and others are not. But what I find worse is when sales are recorded and the information is incorrect.

 

Take this Mask Comics #1 for example: MASK

That copy is a 4.0 C-4.

 

I"ve been checking GPA to see when it would finally update with that sale, however, GPA incorrectly marked the copy as a 4.0 C-1. Although this may seem trivial, it makes it difficult for a true FMV to be understood. 

Forgive my ignorance, but how is GPA monitored? Can requests for sales/updates be submitted somewhere? 

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46 minutes ago, Phill the Governor said:

I'm sure there are people more cynical about the census and GPA in general, but like many I find it to be a helpful resource. That said.... I often find it frustrating that some sales are recorded, and others are not. But what I find worse is when sales are recorded and the information is incorrect.

 

Take this Mask Comics #1 for example: MASK

That copy is a 4.0 C-4.

 

I"ve been checking GPA to see when it would finally update with that sale, however, GPA incorrectly marked the copy as a 4.0 C-1. Although this may seem trivial, it makes it difficult for a true FMV to be understood. 

Forgive my ignorance, but how is GPA monitored? Can requests for sales/updates be submitted somewhere? 

Email George who is the owner and I believe he can update the database.  Bronzebruce on the boards also seems to help out George when it comes to GPA issues,  He might be able to forward your issue to him.

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2 hours ago, Bird said:

I emailed him about a book I sold and he noted the info I gave him on the sale

ComicLink just had a huge 4 day auction, most of the prices smashing GP charts by as much as triple! These are auctions of books that can't be found on ebay and chances are won't. Link's 4 day auction probably generated more in Silver and Golden age sales in those 4 days than all of ebay does in a year, it had to have been tens of millions of dollars of sales of CGC graded books, and yet none of it is reflected on the GP charts. Why is that? Why are the sales of one of the biggest sources of CGC graded books in the world; why aren't these sales showing up on the GP charts, and how valid is the GP data without this info? Aren't the charts horribly skewed by not including these sales? 

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GPA might be a great tool for copper and modern books, with multiple sales every year in higher grades, and perhaps fewer variables for eye-appeal for a given grade, but its use seems more limited for GA. It's a starting point, but the only time I check it is when there is a link to Heritage auctions, and I find Heritage's own database, and past ebay, comiclink, comicconnect and even board sales data more useful. particularly when scans are available. More than once I've noticed a bargain price sale listed in GPA, only to find the book in Heritage's archives, and then realized that some flaw that strongly impacts eye-appeal like heavy foxing, fading, or a piece out of the front cover is probably responsible for the lower sale price. Conversely an auction sale of a really nice looking copy for the grade might skew FMV impressions upward.

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21 minutes ago, rjpb said:

GPA might be a great tool for copper and modern books, with multiple sales every year in higher grades, and perhaps fewer variables for eye-appeal for a given grade, but its use seems more limited for GA. It's a starting point, but the only time I check it is when there is a link to Heritage auctions, and I find Heritage's own database, and past ebay, comiclink, comicconnect and even board sales data more useful. particularly when scans are available. More than once I've noticed a bargain price sale listed in GPA, only to find the book in Heritage's archives, and then realized that some flaw that strongly impacts eye-appeal like heavy foxing, fading, or a piece out of the front cover is probably responsible for the lower sale price. Conversely an auction sale of a really nice looking copy for the grade might skew FMV impressions upward.

I don't collect GA but I do collect Pre-Hero Marvels and I agree that the sample sizes of data available in GPA are too small to be very useful for specific issues and grades.  In my case I am generally targeting a grade of 7.0, and many books may not even have a data point for that grade, or if they do it might be 3, 5, or 8+ years old.  I end up having to extrapolate from other grades or using other proximal issues (within the same title or similar titles) as comps.  Still useful, but much more of a loose guide than an authority. 

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1 hour ago, Phill the Governor said:

doh! Thanks!

FYI, George doesn't really visit the boards that often.

The best way to contact him is through the following email --> support@gpanalysis.com

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1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Comiclink does not report to GPA,  feels that their data is business knowledge and I agree.  This discussion has been talked about before. 

I understand that their data is business knowledge. However, I think it would be beneficial to buyers as well as sellers if ComicLink would list the sale date of any book that is sold. Is that business knowledge too, or is a good way for buyers/sellers to understand current FMV?

Edited by Joe Ankenbauer
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1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Comiclink does not report to GPA,  feels that their data is business knowledge and I agree.  This discussion has been talked about before. 

I thought it was that they weren't agreeable to the "all data" requirement from GPA, they basically wanted to provide the data from some sales but not all. I think they also took the position of seeing their sales data as having value and not wanting to 'give it away" but Im not sure how much use or value they've gotten out of it in terms of turning it into some value. 

 

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2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Comiclink does not report to GPA,  feels that their data is business knowledge and I agree.  This discussion has been talked about before. 

Do they have to report it? The results of their auctions are all publicly displayed. All of them. You can see whatever you want to see as far as sales data/price just by logging in. It's really not much of a secret that those results, as legitimate as any on ebay, can be compiled and added to more realistically reflect the market. Case in point. Say you have a Hulk 3 in CGC 8.5 that you put on your site. GP has it at about $3650 with one sale in the past two years. Now we both know that you can't buy one anywhere on earth that even begins to approach that price, and as such, one sold for $7800 in the Link auction. $1200 more than the last 9.0 sale noted on GP.. So what do you price it. You go by GP and price it $3600, and then when you wnt to realistically replace it, it'll cost you $7000, because that's the real going rate? 

So what are we doing here? Is GP supposed to be? A compendium reflecting the market, or just a very small portion of the market and as such should be taken as just some general price guide and a look into the past like an old Overstreet guide with prices compiled yearly? 

Doesn't make much sense to have a sliver of the marketplace representing hobby market averages, IMO. What does it represent in this case? It's like having a national weather average and you pick one state on one day, note the temperature and call that the national average. 

Edited by James J Johnson
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9 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

I thought it was that they weren't agreeable to the "all data" requirement from GPA, they basically wanted to provide the data from some sales but not all. I think they also took the position of seeing their sales data as having value and not wanting to 'give it away" but Im not sure how much use or value they've gotten out of it in terms of turning it into some value. 

 

I've said this before.  Knowing what to pay and what something is worth is very valuable.  Everybody is a dealer.  As a private business I don't need to give it away to a company that makes money off that data source.  My information is not "public" unless you are tracking my big ticket sales.  If I'm making the sale and doing all of the work what is the benefit?  I'm raising my cost of replacing the book and saving my competitor's hours of trying to figure out what the book is worth.  Full timers as well as wanna be's.  Business is business,  I'm not a charity.    

As far as auction houses go their sales are PUBLIC information.  Unless that auction house has a legal reason why GPA can't capture that data he should be gathering it.  .  

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For collectors (buyers and sellers) as much information as possible is the best.  If a book is only selling once a year or less then any information that we can collectively contribute to sales of a copy are beneficial for the hobby historically.

Now; I understand (what I believe) to be a big reason why ComicLink would choose not to share their sales data.

Think about it like this; If ComicLink is bringing in record sales and they know that; then they get to use that information in future listings when they say "Look at this copy and note that the last one we sold was $X,XXX."

Because that information is not shared; it also is not really available for use from other Auction Houses when they sell similar books.  That could help prevent other Auction Houses from getting top dollar since the record breaking ComicLink sales are not available for the community to freely/actively use/quote in a collected manner.  It becomes another data point that can help other Auction Houses sales when they list those books; that ComicLink knows and they don't.  So I see that potential "value". 

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53 minutes ago, AstuTE said:

Because Josh doesn't like honesty and integrity but George does.

How about ebay? Does George have to request permission from ebay, and from every seller on ebay that he reports a sale of and adds to his GP data? is that even feasible? Conan sells a CGC FF 1 and George has to message him and ask if he can add that data to GP? I don't think so. Comiclink does not own data that is a matter of public record. If the data is put on the net, and it is, by Link, then that data can be captured and used to better reflect the market. 

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52 minutes ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

I understand that their data is business knowledge. However, I think it would be beneficial to buyers as well as sellers if ComicLink would list the sale date of any book that is sold. Is that business knowledge too, or is a good way for buyers/sellers to understand current FMV?

Link doesn't have to report. What their books sell for is online and public. It's a matter of public record. Just like ebay sales. 

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2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Comiclink does not report to GPA,  feels that their data is business knowledge and I agree.  This discussion has been talked about before. 

Then that's like Coca-Cola putting their recipe online and still considering it to be top secret business knowledge. What? Everybody should pretend they can't see the publicly displayed results because it's top secret ComicLink business? If it can be seen, it can be compiled, permission or not, just like ebay sellers aren't asked for their permission to capture the data from a very public, publicly visible sale. Some books haven't sold in certain grades on ebay for years. But they sell routinely in Connect, Link, Heritage auctions and on better quality seller sites like yours. These are the only places they sell which is why some GP prices were last recorded 10 years ago that have sold a dozen times since without any data compiled. Compiling a sliver of the marketplace, and having that supposedly serving as an indication of value is nuts. It's like trying to estimate world population by taking a census of Providence. 

Edited by James J Johnson
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Isn't this similar to Worthpoint and Ebay

I believe Worthpoint pays Ebay something according to this article when they reached the deal.  Admittedly it is from 2011 but that is when Worthpoint started adding Ebay transactions to their database.

"WorthPoint announces a deal for transaction data on antiques sold on eBay"

https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2011/05/17/new-standard-antiques-pricing-data/

And if I am reading the Ebay User Agreement correctly, as a user, you grant Ebay a license to use the content in any manner they choose - 

"When you provide content using the Services (directly or indirectly), you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all Intellectual Property Rights you have in that content in connection with our provision, expansion, and promotion of the Services, in any media known now or developed in the future. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your right to enforce your Intellectual Property Rights in that content against eBay, our assignees, our sublicensees, and their assignees in connection with our, those assignees', and those sublicensees' use of that content in connection with our provision, expansion, and promotion of the Services."

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