Where do you see the hobby in 25 years 4 4

[Hollywood1892]

16 minutes ago, kav said:

however if they censor content, this makes them publishers and should not be eligible for special tax status.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[lou_fine]

9 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

CGC could sell CGC for a few billion if its search engine was half as good as Google 

If this was anywhere close to being the case or even a tiny fraction of it, the ownership of CCG would have gone running to the buyers suckers as fast as their little feet could take them and kowtowing to them like there was no tomorrow.    

[Buzzetta]

35 minutes ago, kav said:

however if they censor content, this makes them publishers and should not be eligible for special tax status.

There is a difference between censoring and universally adhering to guidelines.  I know where you are going with this.  I disagree with you.  If you are truly right this will be challenged and they will lose special tax status.  I doubt that will happen and if it does it will be challenged and those that took away the special tax status will lose. 

[World Devourer]

4 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Can you provide some evidence to your opinion?

Well, I think the focus on variants speaks for itself. You only have to run an Ebay search on certain Spider-Man, Star Wars, Thanos etc. issues to see that. I have also noted many CGC 9.8's of old titles not moving. These days it really has to be a key issue - and usually in a good grade - to move. Another aspect of the hobby is also the strong emphasis on the cover - people don't buy a CGC comic to crack it open and read it. There are paper and e-versions for that.

 

[Hamlet]

10 minutes ago, World Devourer said:

Well, I think the focus on variants speaks for itself. You only have to run an Ebay search on certain Spider-Man, Star Wars, Thanos etc. issues to see that. I have also noted many CGC 9.8's of old titles not moving. These days it really has to be a key issue - and usually in a good grade - to move. Another aspect of the hobby is also the strong emphasis on the cover - people don't buy a CGC comic to crack it open and read it. There are paper and e-versions for that.

 

I think the lack of movement often reflects unrealistic price expectations more than anything else.  If people put things into auctions, they sell, and they sell for what look like pretty decent prices to me most of the time.

There are a ton of books where there are several copies sitting out at X dollars when the actual market value is half of X. 
 

 

[World Devourer]

15 hours ago, Hamlet said:

I think the lack of movement often reflects unrealistic price expectations more than anything else.  If people put things into auctions, they sell, and they sell for what look like pretty decent prices to me most of the time.

There are a ton of books where there are several copies sitting out at X dollars when the actual market value is half of X. 
 

 

Yes, overpricing is also a factor. There is one particular seller on Ebay who has listed highly overpriced items for years. That said, that is not the sole determining factor. It is nigh-impossible to have a decisive answer as much of the hobby is based on perception - hence the rise in what I call a "cover sport". 

[Hollywood1892]

Would you buy comics if they were like this? I imagine the drop can't be good for them

[lou_fine]

On 6/18/2020 at 11:23 PM, Myowncollector said:

On 6/18/2020 at 11:12 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, if you are mostly hanging around the Comics General 

I like to spread my wealth of knowledge and charming personality to all of the areas. General is most active so I like it. I like the modern just to hear what lame book people are paying crazy $ for. Newb forum gets like 3 hits a day. Restoration is pretty dead and usually is just can this huge color breaking crease book benefit from a press? Copper dead. Bronze silver do so so. Gold I never see much that catches my interest but it's my favorite age. I think the general just has click bait to get me.

Yeah, I am definitely more into the GA books and find that I can just learn so much more when I am on the boards over there and has definitely sent me chasing after certain books that I never would have thought about before.    

Mist of the GA boardies don't seem to venture or seemingly almost scared to go into General because they just deem it to be the cesspool of the boards here where all of the bad actors and controversial topics are.  Personally, I don't mind it at all and rather enjoy it at times as you can obviously tell since I guess that I don't mind getting down and dirty and rolling around in the muck myself sometimes.  

When I first started here about 15 years ago, it was the SA books that were definitely the hottest time period for collecting and yet they were never able to keep up with the GA boards in terms of the numbers of posts.  Good to see that the GA boards continues to have the longest serving time members and a steady strong post count while other like Comics General and the other hot one in third place (i.e. Modern) are usually dominated by board members who arrive like a flash and then gone just like that after a few years.  

[lou_fine]

On 6/19/2020 at 9:51 AM, Hollywood1892 said:

On 6/19/2020 at 9:41 AM, World Devourer said:

In answer to the original question, I suspect the market for back issues will be considerably reduced. There seems to be far more emphasis on modern variants, with more and more older issues up for sale but withering on the vine (the Gold and Silver Age's days are numbered). That's only an opinion, and while there are some sales that occasionally defy this view, I believe we are seeing the start of a decline. The lack of interest in comic history is the beginning.

 

Can you provide some evidence to your opinion?

Well, perfect case in point being the first time that I was down in one of the SD Con's way back in 1991.  

This was at a time when all the rage was about the latest hot books to hit the shelves of the LCS's and artists like McFarlane and Liefeld was where it was all at.  Nothing hotter at the time than the so-called "rare" Platinum Retailer Edition of Spider-man 1 which most of the dealers had on their walls at the bargain basment asking price of only $1,000.  Kept wandering around the convention floor until I came across Jon Warren's tiny table (then Overstreet Editor and future Wizard Price Guide Editor) way back in the last row who had a small box of nice GA books.  Went through the box and pulled out a couple of nice uber HG copies of CAP 29 & Cap 31 which I asked him to hold onto for me while I gave it some much needed further thought.  Especially since he was asking $500 a pop for each of them which was around top of guide at the time when the market was nowhere close to being hot on vintage books like these.  

Did some more wandering around and asked a few dealers for their opinions and their advice was that the McFarlane book with the combination of Spidey and McFarlane was a slam dunk winner going forward and would never see $1,000 again.  Especially in comparison to a couple of nearly dead books that would soon be forgotten (if not already) when the old fogies depart for that big comic shop in the sky.  Being the contrarian that I am, picked up the 2 Cap books in the end and when I showed it to a couple of the dealers they couldn't believe that I was such a fool to actually take those 2 books over the "rare" Spidey 1 by McFarlane.  

Fast forward to today and it looks like the Platinum Edition of McFarlane's Spidey 1 sits at only $200 in top of guide and collectors would probably be lucky to get condition guide for the book.  In comparison, the 2 Cap books combined are now sitting at $15,900 in top of guide with these types of GA books always going for a healthy premium to condition guide across the entire condition spectrum.  I guess the dealers were right in one sense though in that the Spidey 1 would not see $1,000 again.  

Well, that's my evidence to prove your point here.  

Wait, wait a second...............I just reread your original post again and my bad as I might just have disproven your point here.     

Edited June 20, 2020 by lou_fine

[Hollywood1892]

11 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, perfect case in point being the first time that I was down in one of the SD Con's way back in 1991.  

This was at a time when all the rage was about the latest hot books to hit the shelves of the LCS's and artists like McFarlane and Liefeld was where it was all at.  Nothing hotter at the time than the so-called "rare" Platinum Retailer Edition of Spider-man 1 which most of the dealers had on their walls at the bargain basment asking price of only $1,000.  Kept wandering around the convention floor until I came across Jon Warren's tiny table (then Overstreet Editor and future Wizard Price Guide Editor) way back in the last row who had a small box of nice GA books.  Went through the box and pulled out a couple of nice uber HG copies of CAP 29 & Cap 31 which I asked him to hold onto for me while I gave it some much needed further thought.  Especially since he was asking $500 a pop for each of them which was around top of guide at the time when the market was nowhere close to being hot on vintage books like these.  

Did some more wandering around and asked a few dealers for their opinions and their advice was that the McFarlane book with the combination of Spidey and McFarlane was a slam dunk winner going forward and would never see $1,000 again.  Especially in comparison to a couple of nearly dead books that would soon be forgotten (if not already) when the old fogies depart for that big comic shop in the sky.  Being the contrarian that I am, picked up the 2 Cap books in the end and when I showed it to a couple of the dealers they couldn't believe that I was such a fool to actually take those 2 books over the "rare" Spidey 1 by McFarlane.  

Fast forward to today and it looks like the Platinum Edition of McFarlane's Spidey 1 sits at only $200 in top of guide and collectors would probably be lucky to get condition guide for the book.  In comparison, the 2 Cap books combined are now sitting at $15,900 in top of guide with these types of GA books always going for a healthy premium to condition guide across the entire condition spectrum.  I guess the dealers were right in one sense though in that the Spidey 1 would not see $1,000 again.  

Well, that's my evidence to prove your point here.  

Wait, wait a second...............I just reread your original post again and my bad as I might just have disproven your point here.     

I'm reading it and I'm like...that's not what he was saying....nice one tho!

[World Devourer]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Well, perfect case in point being the first time that I was down in one of the SD Con's way back in 1991.  

This was at a time when all the rage was about the latest hot books to hit the shelves of the LCS's and artists like McFarlane and Liefeld was where it was all at.  Nothing hotter at the time than the so-called "rare" Platinum Retailer Edition of Spider-man 1 which most of the dealers had on their walls at the bargain basment asking price of only $1,000.  Kept wandering around the convention floor until I came across Jon Warren's tiny table (then Overstreet Editor and future Wizard Price Guide Editor) way back in the last row who had a small box of nice GA books.  Went through the box and pulled out a couple of nice uber HG copies of CAP 29 & Cap 31 which I asked him to hold onto for me while I gave it some much needed further thought.  Especially since he was asking $500 a pop for each of them which was around top of guide at the time when the market was nowhere close to being hot on vintage books like these.  

Did some more wandering around and asked a few dealers for their opinions and their advice was that the McFarlane book with the combination of Spidey and McFarlane was a slam dunk winner going forward and would never see $1,000 again.  Especially in comparison to a couple of nearly dead books that would soon be forgotten (if not already) when the old fogies depart for that big comic shop in the sky.  Being the contrarian that I am, picked up the 2 Cap books in the end and when I showed it to a couple of the dealers they couldn't believe that I was such a fool to actually take those 2 books over the "rare" Spidey 1 by McFarlane.  

Fast forward to today and it looks like the Platinum Edition of McFarlane's Spidey 1 sits at only $200 in top of guide and collectors would probably be lucky to get condition guide for the book.  In comparison, the 2 Cap books combined are now sitting at $15,900 in top of guide with these types of GA books always going for a healthy premium to condition guide across the entire condition spectrum.  I guess the dealers were right in one sense though in that the Spidey 1 would not see $1,000 again.  

Well, that's my evidence to prove your point here.  

Wait, wait a second...............I just reread your original post again and my bad as I might just have disproven your point here.     

Nice story. I could never understand the fascination with McFarlane, Liefeld, etc as it just didn't appeal. The Valiant titles were considerably better but most of that is now worth very little.

The problem is the younger demographic in the right here and now - they live for the next Modern variant and Convention Funko Pop. Anything pre - 2000? Meh. 

[lou_fine]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:17 PM, World Devourer said:

On 6/19/2020 at 9:51 AM, Hollywood1892 said:

Can you provide some evidence to your opinion?

Well, I think the focus on variants speaks for itself. You only have to run an Ebay search on certain Spider-Man, Star Wars, Thanos etc. issues to see that. I have also noted many CGC 9.8's of old titles not moving. These days it really has to be a key issue - and usually in a good grade - to move.

I believe you are referring to "published collectibles" which are really nothing more than the current "flavor of the month" which publishers are trying their best to hawk onto you to buy before they become forgotten as their newest issue and latest hot "flavor of the month" comes out the following month.  Rinse and repeat over and over again as we all know aht happens to flavors of the month when the month comes to an end.    

With respect to the CGC 9.8's, I believe you are referring to the "pressed manipulated and graded collectibles" which the CCG group of companies are trying to get you to happily drain your wallet by spending good money for costly ancillary services on relatively common and easy to find books which have less value than a roll of toilet paper in this Coronavirus environment if slaabbed in CGC 9.4 or below.    

 

On 6/19/2020 at 2:36 PM, Hamlet said:

I think the lack of movement often reflects unrealistic price expectations more than anything else.  If people put things into auctions, they sell, and they sell for what look like pretty decent prices to me most of the time.

Well, the way to resolve this problem is simply to eliminate the BIN "not so auction" like format whereby hopeful consignors are putting books on eBay at stratospheric prices hoping to snag some sucker who doesn't know anything at all.  If these consignors had theactual  balls to put all of their books into a true open auction format, they would have no problem having a 100% sell though on their books, but most likely at a much more realistic market price which is probably at a huge discount of what they was hoping for.    

Edited June 20, 2020 by lou_fine

[Hollywood1892]

I personally have no problem paying for mid-grade silver age spidey keys, first appearances of long standing characters 

Rhino

Kingpin

Green Goblin

Kraven

Ect

And I have no problem paying for copper age characters like

ASM 300

But you won't see me doling out money for the 756 symbiote character

Edited June 20, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[Ken Aldred]

6 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Would you buy comics if they were like this? I imagine the drop can't be good for them

With a shock absorbent material to prevent SCS and a non-abrasive material elsewhere to prevent scratches to bags and slabs it might just be feasible.

Practical during virus outbreaks as well. Easy clean.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[WolverineX]

18 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, perfect case in point being the first time that I was down in one of the SD Con's way back in 1991.  

This was at a time when all the rage was about the latest hot books to hit the shelves of the LCS's and artists like McFarlane and Liefeld was where it was all at.  Nothing hotter at the time than the so-called "rare" Platinum Retailer Edition of Spider-man 1 which most of the dealers had on their walls at the bargain basment asking price of only $1,000.  Kept wandering around the convention floor until I came across Jon Warren's tiny table (then Overstreet Editor and future Wizard Price Guide Editor) way back in the last row who had a small box of nice GA books.  Went through the box and pulled out a couple of nice uber HG copies of CAP 29 & Cap 31 which I asked him to hold onto for me while I gave it some much needed further thought.  Especially since he was asking $500 a pop for each of them which was around top of guide at the time when the market was nowhere close to being hot on vintage books like these.  

Did some more wandering around and asked a few dealers for their opinions and their advice was that the McFarlane book with the combination of Spidey and McFarlane was a slam dunk winner going forward and would never see $1,000 again.  Especially in comparison to a couple of nearly dead books that would soon be forgotten (if not already) when the old fogies depart for that big comic shop in the sky.  Being the contrarian that I am, picked up the 2 Cap books in the end and when I showed it to a couple of the dealers they couldn't believe that I was such a fool to actually take those 2 books over the "rare" Spidey 1 by McFarlane.  

Fast forward to today and it looks like the Platinum Edition of McFarlane's Spidey 1 sits at only $200 in top of guide and collectors would probably be lucky to get condition guide for the book.  In comparison, the 2 Cap books combined are now sitting at $15,900 in top of guide with these types of GA books always going for a healthy premium to condition guide across the entire condition spectrum.  I guess the dealers were right in one sense though in that the Spidey 1 would not see $1,000 again.  

Well, that's my evidence to prove your point here.  

Wait, wait a second...............I just reread your original post again and my bad as I might just have disproven your point here.     

Great story! Post photos of those bad boys!

[oakman29]

On 6/17/2020 at 2:34 PM, Hollywood1892 said:

Answer the question I posed to you Kav

He did, short and succinct. 

[Hollywood1892]

15 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

He did, short and succinct. 

What was the question

[oakman29]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

What was the question

Well if you dont know I certainly don't have a clue! 🥺

[Hollywood1892]

5 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

Well if you dont know I certainly don't have a clue! 🥺

Oh...I was hoping you could shed some light on the subject

[oakman29]

3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Oh...I was hoping you could shed some light on the subject

I personally think comics will be the same in 25 years as they are today. I've been collecting for over 40 years and I remember this same discussion with my friends 30 years ago. So I think yeah eventually the high end books have to hit a ceiling (AF15, Action 1 etc.) But I dont think we are there yet.