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Gaines File Copy problem...RESOLVED!
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Started by Motor City Rob,

24 posts in this topic

Motor City Rob

Motor City Rob

Posted
Posted (edited)

I bought a Shock Suspenstories #18 awhile back for a good deal. It allegedly was a CGC 7.0 Gaines File Copy, but it had been cracked out of the slab and was only sealed in the inner well with the label. Would CGC even recognize this as a Gaines File Copy if I tried to have it re-slabbed?

16120559940548944407428671178203.jpg

Edited by Motor City Rob
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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted

https://www.cgccomics.com/resources/pedigree/

@Motor City Rob

Here is the list of "cgc recognized pedigree's", now Gaines is on there (thumbsu 

Given the criteria and it still being recognized, I see no reason why CGC wouldn't, but agree with @Buzzetta that it might have to be "regraded", still the book should still have the criteria to be recognized as the "Gaines" and therefore be honored, as CGC still recognizes the Gaines pedigree :foryou: 

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Lightning55

Lightning55

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Sounds like you are worried that they won't consider it the pedigree copy because it out of the slab, could have been tampered with, substituted, etc.  That IS an interesting question, since I believe a Gaines file copy has no particular markings that would indicate it to be a Gaines copy.  They are just unusually high grade, and have a paper trail, correct?  In a parallel situation, that's like having a certificate of authenticity for a signature, which CGC would NOT honor.  It has to be proven that the comic is from that collection.  It was proven to be when it was encased, I presume, but now since it is in a more vulnerable position, is it still the file copy in there???

Being still sealed in the inner well with the identifying label might be their criteria for honoring its provenance.  Certainly they could examine it to see if the plastic holder matches what they would expect to see if one was removed from a holder today.  But do they have a hard and fast rule - no outer case, no authentication?

It WOULD have to be regraded, according to the Services and Fees section:

ReHolder

A comic book in a CGC holder is encapsulated in a new CGC holder. The grade assigned to the book should not change, unless any damage occurred post-encapsulation, in which case the grade will be adjusted accordingly. To qualify, the book must still be encapsulated in its original CGC holder.

 

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OtherEric

OtherEric

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Posted
Just now, blazingbob said:

Normally the Gaines file copies come with a certificate.

Just a general question:  Was that all Gaines File Copies, or just the comics?  I have an issue of Mad that was sold to me as a GFC by Metropolis that didn't have one.

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buttock

buttock

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3 hours ago, Motor City Rob said:

I bought a Shock Suspenstories #18 awhile back for a good deal. It allegedly was a CGC 7.0 Gaines File Copy, but it had been cracked out of the slab and was only sealed in the inner well with the label. Would CGC even recognize this as a Gaines File Copy if I tried to have it re-slabbed?

16120559940548944407428671178203.jpg

Here's the book still in the case: 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/shock-suspenstories-18-ec-1955-cgc-fn-vf-70-off-white-pages/a/18033-73458.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

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Motor City Rob

Motor City Rob

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8 hours ago, buttock said:

Here's the book still in the case: 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/shock-suspenstories-18-ec-1955-cgc-fn-vf-70-off-white-pages/a/18033-73458.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Great detective work! Looks like it's the same book. I don't have the certificate, unfortunately. I will still call CGC on Monday to discuss. Will reply to this chat once I find out. Thanks for all the replies. 

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Robot Man

Robot Man

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10 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

Does the certificate typically travel with the comic, @blazingbob? 

Do you have a certificate for it, @Motor City Rob?

Yes, but early on in the CGC grading process, a number of the certificates were discarded after being graded. All the GFC sold by Cochran all came with certificates. And, not all super high grade. I have a 7.0 and a friend with a 4.5.

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Turnando

Turnando

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20 hours ago, buttock said:

Here's the book still in the case: 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/shock-suspenstories-18-ec-1955-cgc-fn-vf-70-off-white-pages/a/18033-73458.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

The key piece of evidence.  A pedigree like Gaines, that has no physical identifiers, is verified by provenance and that has essentially been lost by being cracked open and moving around the comic book marketplace.

I think this saves the day.

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Randall Dowling

Randall Dowling

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22 hours ago, OtherEric said:

Just a general question:  Was that all Gaines File Copies, or just the comics?  I have an issue of Mad that was sold to me as a GFC by Metropolis that didn't have one.

All of the books that Russ Cochran and Bob Overstreet helped Bill Gaines open up and sort out came with certificates for sure.  I seem to remember that there were many Mad magazines that were not a part of that but were sorted and sold later.  I wouldn't expect they came with certificates.

Having owned many GFCs, a couple things stand out to me.  First, many certificates were just tossed in the early days of CGC (either by CGC or the owner) as people just assumed that the designation had been transferred.  Eventually, they started sending all certs back with books.  But I think many were lost initially (not most, but quite a few).  

Second, I have seen at least 3 books that were designated "Gaines File Copy" on the CGC label but absolutely did not resemble any of the other file copies that I owned.  Page quality was yellowed, edges were worn, grades were in the 6.0-8.0 range.  I have my sincere doubts that these were actually from Bill Gaines' closet.  It's possible, but I doubt it.  Most likely, a "reputable" dealer claimed they were and CGC accepted that as provenance.  

There are a few other pedigrees that I've seen, similarly incorrectly assigned as well.  But I think that's to be expected given the shear number of books that have been graded by CGC (and regraded, and regraded,...).  Errors are bound to happen.

Maybe @Stevemmg will chime in here as he owned a couple hundred of them and is big into magazines as well.

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Mio

Mio

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Posted

I used to own this copy, I was the high bidder on the Heritage auction.

It's a nice book. I wonder if these lower grade ones were Gaines' reader copies 🤔🤷🏼‍♂️

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Mio

Mio

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46 minutes ago, Motor City Rob said:

Very cool. Any idea why it was cracked out of the slab?

Not sure .. it is one of the old slabs. Maybe became scuffed up and ugly over time.

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