Completeness 3 3

[theCapraAegagrus]

23 hours ago, Qalyar said:

I know, starting this out, that not all of collect anything for "completeness". If you're a fan of any of the A-list superheroes, you probably don't collect for completeness, at least not by character, or in the broad sense. Chasing every book with Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man -- well, unless you were Steve Levine -- isn't really a feasible goal. But then again, that doesn't preclude trying to finish runs. Or complete shorter titles or mini-series.

For people whose goal is completeness, I'm curious what it means to you. When you try to complete a set of books (whether that's by title, or character, or creator, or something else entirely), where do you draw the line? Is a set "complete" when you have one of each issue the set comprises? I assume that's the most basic idea of having a complete set of something. Does it include variants, as we conventionally think of them (stuff like alternate covers, convention editions, multiple printings)? Does it include variants in the stricter sense (stuff like direct market/newsstand variants, prince variants, CPVs, UKPVs, inserts, and so on)? Does it include foreign-language reprints? What about tangentially-related books? An unrelated title from the same publisher advertising your book on the back cover, for example. Or, like Levine's Spider-Man collection, including background characters wearing Spider-Man t-shirts in the set of all Spider-Man books. Does it matter if some of the material wouldn't qualify for CGC slabbing (whether you slab or not): stuff like treasury-sized books or hardcover French editions? What about trade paperbacks? And so on.

Just for the sake of an example -- because it came up in another thread, not because I'm collecting this -- consider NOW Comics' 1993 Mr. T and the T-Force.

• Would you consider the set complete when you had all 10 issues?
• ...when you had all 10 issues, plus the two advance editions (gold foil limited and non-foil) of #1?
• ...when you had all 10 issues in both direct market and newsstand printing, plus the two advance editions?
• ...when you had some combination of those things, plus the Mr. T and the T-Force Double-Sized reprint comics?
• ...when you had some combination of those things, plus the 1994 Mr. T und die T-Force, a German-language magazine-sized book printed by Bastei Verlag that (I think, anyway) reprinted material from the US comics?
• ...when you had some combination of those things, plus The Real Ghostbusters 3-D Slimer Special, a totally unrelated book, also by NOW Comics, with an advertisement for the title in question?
• Would you want to include the two issues (and potentially their variants) of the 2005 APComics series Mr. T? They don't share any continuity as far as I know, but they were marketed as Mr. T's "return to comics", so APComics clearly viewed the NOW series as its predecessor in some fashion.

The bold. Whatever completes the story. Full stop.

Personal example: I bought the New 52 Justice League run. There are 65 total comics; 0-52, including 23.1-23.4, and the Darkseid War gods stuff. The lot I bought had 3 variants, but I wanted all Cover A. I found them and gave the 3 variants to my brother.

Now I know that there are crossovers, such as Throne of Atlantis, but I don't consider that completely necessary to understand the JL story.

[Warlord]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:16 AM, Savoyard23 said:

Right??  To have a book in your collection that some thought didn't exist a few years ago...  

@Brock

It's been more than a few years.  I own the first widely known copy of DCCP22 that got any attention.  A guy snagged it off of MCS' site after reading a bunch of comments from the variant posse on the STL forum about whether it existed or not.   We had an image of the cover but the debate was whether it was real or photoshopped.   The guy posted a video for those of us at the STL forum saying "it's real, here it is".  I threw an $offer$ to him to make a deal and thankfully he took it.  Thanks to that issue I finally completed my DCW set in April 2012.

[spracknetch23]

Hulk was the first superhero comic book I read when I was a kid in the ‘90s (#362 I think?), and a few years later I set out to complete a full run. I only cared about 1st printings and I guess there were a few variants as well (I stopped at the end of vol. 1. Issue 474 or something?) I succeeded in my quest and collected an entire run by the early 2000s, including TTA,  besides IH #1, which remains out of my reach. The end of volume 1 afforded me an excuse to end the run collection. 

[F For Fake]

All I know is now I have a bunch of books to add to my Mr. T and the T-Force checklist! Gah!

[Qalyar]

3 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

All I know is now I have a bunch of books to add to my Mr. T and the T-Force checklist! Gah!

I pity the fool who doesn't collect the newsstand printings separately!

[F For Fake]

For a serious answer, I am sometimes a "completist", but it's only complete by my own shaky definitions. For instance. with X-Men, I wanted every issue from GSX 1 through the point where I stopped reading the book, UXM 282. I did that. With Batman, I wanted every Batman comic published in my lifetime, so 1977 to 2002, which was when Hush came out, and the RRP cover hit. I just wasn't willing to pay what one of those would cost (though I should have, considering what they sell for now!) So I made the mental break with "completing" Batman at that point, which is probably what made it easier to sell my entire collection not long afterwards.

Now I collect Batman and X-Men in Hardcover, and I am rebuilding my X-Men run, GSX through 282, once again. 

I think "complete" is in the eye of the beholder. It's more difficult in the modern era, as I'm just not willing to chase down all of the variants for books. For instance, Marvel has a new Alien book coming out in a week or so, and I am an Alien collector as much as I'm a comic collector. And it is KILLING me that they have two 1:500 virgin variant covers, because 1. I don't really want them 2. if I want to be complete, I'm going to have to pay $300 a piece or whatever to get them.

So, I'm still not decided on what I'm going to do there. This may be the point where my completeness ends for Alien, which will make me sad, but it's hard to justify spending that much money on something I just don't like.

[Qalyar]

10 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

For a serious answer, I am sometimes a "completist", but it's only complete by my own shaky definitions. For instance. with X-Men, I wanted every issue from GSX 1 through the point where I stopped reading the book, UXM 282. I did that. With Batman, I wanted every Batman comic published in my lifetime, so 1977 to 2002, which was when Hush came out, and the RRP cover hit. I just wasn't willing to pay what one of those would cost (though I should have, considering what they sell for now!) So I made the mental break with "completing" Batman at that point, which is probably what made it easier to sell my entire collection not long afterwards.

Now I collect Batman and X-Men in Hardcover, and I am rebuilding my X-Men run, GSX through 282, once again. 

I think "complete" is in the eye of the beholder. It's more difficult in the modern era, as I'm just not willing to chase down all of the variants for books. For instance, Marvel has a new Alien book coming out in a week or so, and I am an Alien collector as much as I'm a comic collector. And it is KILLING me that they have two 1:500 virgin variant covers, because 1. I don't really want them 2. if I want to be complete, I'm going to have to pay $300 a piece or whatever to get them.

So, I'm still not decided on what I'm going to do there. This may be the point where my completeness ends for Alien, which will make me sad, but it's hard to justify spending that much money on something I just don't like.

Two 1:500 covers? Ouch. That's pretty much just banditry on the part of Marvel.

[F For Fake]

23 minutes ago, Qalyar said:

Two 1:500 covers? Ouch. That's pretty much just banditry on the part of Marvel.

Yup, two. It’s absurd. Pre-order prices are anywhere from $300-$700 each. I guess I’ll wait and see where prices settle when they actually release, but still, yuck.

[Pat Thomas]

On 3/11/2021 at 9:23 AM, F For Fake said:

Yup, two. It’s absurd. Pre-order prices are anywhere from $300-$700 each. I guess I’ll wait and see where prices settle when they actually release, but still, yuck.

So anything Marvel offers of a title you collect, you buy?  At the ratios you're talking about, it's clearly about force-selling hundreds or thousands of standard covers and taking advantage of both the retailer and the poor soul  compelled to own every version of a comic. How many lcs could move an additional 500 copies of an issue they've been forced to purchase? Why couldn't Marvel just set a price? You really need to pare back or one day you'll be paying $500 for a stick figure variant by the creator's preschooler, all for the sake of completeness.

[F For Fake]

24 minutes ago, Pat Thomas said:

So anything Marvel offers of a title you collect, you buy?  At the ratios you're talking about, it's clearly about force-selling hundreds or thousands of standard covers and taking advantage of both the retailer and the poor soul  compelled to own every version of a comic. How many lcs could move an additional 500 copies of an issue they've been forced to purchase? Why couldn't Marvel just set a price? You really need to pare back or one day you'll be paying $500 for a stick figure variant by the creator's preschooler, all for the sake of completeness.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. I don’t buy moderns at all, and haven’t bought a Marvel book in years, but I am an Alien completist. As I said, I haven’t bought any of them yet. I’m going to wait and see what the prices are like when they’re released. If I can get them for a couple hundred bucks, that’s not a big deal relative to what I spend on my collection. But if they land and stick at $300-$500 each, or whatever, that’s likely the point where my collection is no longer complete. If I liked the covers better, it would be an easier pill to swallow. But the 1:500’s appear to just be virgin variants of covers I’m already not terribly excited about.

[ausXwing]

39 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. I don’t buy moderns at all, and haven’t bought a Marvel book in years, but I am an Alien completist. As I said, I haven’t bought any of them yet. I’m going to wait and see what the prices are like when they’re released. If I can get them for a couple hundred bucks, that’s not a big deal relative to what I spend on my collection. But if they land and stick at $300-$500 each, or whatever, that’s likely the point where my collection is no longer complete. If I liked the covers better, it would be an easier pill to swallow. But the 1:500’s appear to just be virgin variants of covers I’m already not terribly excited about.

F4F, just print a Hi res copy of the 1:500 virgin variant cover, bag & board it. Believe me once you've done that you'll loose the urge to have to spend the money ...

[Qalyar]

50 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. I don’t buy moderns at all, and haven’t bought a Marvel book in years, but I am an Alien completist. As I said, I haven’t bought any of them yet. I’m going to wait and see what the prices are like when they’re released. If I can get them for a couple hundred bucks, that’s not a big deal relative to what I spend on my collection. But if they land and stick at $300-$500 each, or whatever, that’s likely the point where my collection is no longer complete. If I liked the covers better, it would be an easier pill to swallow. But the 1:500’s appear to just be virgin variants of covers I’m already not terribly excited about.

That InHyuk Lee cover is ... sort of okay, if not really anything novel, but wow I do not like that Patrick Gleason cover at all. Feel your conflict there.

[F For Fake]

I appreciate it, but I feel like you guys are trying to talk me down from a ledge re: buying these books. To be very clear: unless I find them at a price I like, I won't be buying them. It's ok, guys, really. I've spent more money on much stupider things before. I never claimed to be a wise man. But yeah, it is unlikely that I'll be buying them, which will leave the collection incomplete. Such is life. But this is a message board full of CGC collectors who are competing for registry prizes. I'm surely not the first one here to consider a purchase to complete their collection that they weren't thrilled about.

Edit: should have quoted, was addressing @ausXwing here.

Edited March 12, 2021 by F For Fake

[F For Fake]

1 minute ago, Qalyar said:

That InHyuk Lee cover is ... sort of okay, if not really anything novel, but wow I do not like that Patrick Gleason cover at all. Feel your conflict there.

Yeah, I'm just not feeling most of the covers, really. I guess I was expecting more, but then again, I'm used to Dark Horse, where they had a laundry list of legends doing covers and interiors. I haven't kept up with Marvel's talent stable for a while, but the cover offerings for this book are severely lacking.

[ausXwing]

8 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

I appreciate it, but I feel like you guys are trying to talk me down from a ledge re: buying these books. To be very clear: unless I find them at a price I like, I won't be buying them. It's ok, guys, really. I've spent more money on much stupider things before. I never claimed to be a wise man. But yeah, it is unlikely that I'll be buying them, which will leave the collection incomplete. Such is life. But this is a message board full of CGC collectors who are competing for registry prizes. I'm surely not the first one here to consider a purchase to complete their collection that they weren't thrilled about.

Edit: should have quoted, was addressing @ausXwing here.

F4F, as a comic collector with mild case of OCD, many a time I've walked out of a LCS with an expensive variant (that i didn't really like but needed to get ??) only to suffer regret as I travel home. So the print the cover option has worked great for me, as I feel the title is as complete as I'm going to get it. 

[Jasonmorris1000000]

46 minutes ago, ausXwing said:

F4F, as a comic collector with mild case of OCD, many a time I've walked out of a LCS with an expensive variant (that i didn't really like but needed to get ??) only to suffer regret as I travel home. So the print the cover option has worked great for me, as I feel the title is as complete as I'm going to get it. 

I started a thread called “What’s the worst comic you bought in order to complete a run?”  for this precise reason.  I collect Incredible Hulk and bought some terrible covers in the 2000’s until I finally couldn’t stand it anymore and gave up.  I still buy the main cover though.

[OtherEric]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:23 AM, Qalyar said:

EDIT: Legion of Super-Heroes, in particular, is an unusually variant-rich title. There are Mark Jeweler inserts, both CPVs and UKPVs, and Whitmans.

 

I have what I consider a complete run of the Legion.  My definition of complete is "every appearance prior to Adventure #300, and every book where they were a continuing feature."  So I don't necessarily have all of their cameos or guest appearances; one particular gap is where Legionaries wind up as regular characters in current series, like Starboy in JSA or Mon-El in the Superman books.  I do have any series set in the current era, such as Valor or Karate Kid.  I have all the issues with variant cover art; but not all variants such as newsstand/direct, CPV, UKPV, or Mark Jewelers.  One gap that I want to fill in but don't think keeps me from being complete is I don't have some 2nd print variants.  I did recently put together the set of Whitman variants, but I didn't consider them essential to completing the run.

I guess I would say I consider "complete" one of each issue, but just because it's complete doesn't mean you can't add to the set still.  Which somewhat contradicts the normal meaning of "complete"; but if a book has 7 different covers clearly the standards get weird.  (I think 7 is the most variants on a Legion issue, with Star Trek/ Legion #1)

[FineCollector]

I don't do "keys."  If I don't like the title enough to attempt the run, I don't need the single book.  The phrase "quality over quantity" makes flame shoot from my eyes.

A complete run to me is one of each standard, original cover.  I don't care if it's newsstand or direct, Jeweler insert or not, it's all the same, because I'm not selling it.  Canadian versions are fine for the 80s, but Canadian prints of GA books have terrible color and are often missing a story, so I avoid those.  I can have pence copies, 2nd prints, or variants in addition to the original US cover, but they can't be my only copy.

[Savoyard23]

12 hours ago, FineCollector said:

I don't do "keys."  If I don't like the title enough to attempt the run, I don't need the single book.  The phrase "quality over quantity" makes flame shoot from my eyes.

I have years' worth of good entertainment in all of those shabby white boxes.  I consider that "quality".