Accurate DC Whitman list?? 3 3

[Brock]

I haven't been able to find one anywhere, and I've been looking. I've found sites that make claims about specific issues, but never with much evidence.

 

In my own experience, I'd rank the top 5 (hardest to easiest) as:

 

1. DC Comics Presents #22

2. Sgt. Rock #329

3. Warlord #22

4. Justice League of America #179

5. Action Comics #508

 

That's purely anecdotal, though. And having said that, I have all 5, so I may be biased.

 

I also think many are more common, but still very difficult in high grade. For example, I have a Superboy #1 that CGC gave a 9.2, and that must have been on a very lenient day - but it currently tops the census.

 

I would actually be interested in working with some folks on a project to try to figure this out... Maybe some combination of census count, GPA values and an index of ebay listings over time? Plus a few e-mails with guys like Doug Sulipa?

[ComicbookScout]

Hard to tell which are the most difficult. Books that are perceived as the most valuable are hunted the most intensely and made available for the cash. If you want VF or better copies the scarcity may vary from just general scarcity. It would help if more books were slabbed. I think the lack of CGC copies is a reflection of the lack of high grade Whitman copies in general. Slabbing a VF Whitman variant that is not one of the big 8 is risky because you may not realize the price you desire. Who wants to sell a scarce book for a song when 5 years from now it could be worth 10x - or vise versa who wants to pay a ton for such a book when there could be a lot more. Catch 22, 

Edited January 6, 2019 by ComicbookScout

[Readcomix]

On May 23, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Brock said:

I haven't been able to find one anywhere, and I've been looking. I've found sites that make claims about specific issues, but never with much evidence.

 

In my own experience, I'd rank the top 5 (hardest to easiest) as:

 

1. DC Comics Presents #22

2. Sgt. Rock #329

3. Warlord #22

4. Justice League of America #179

5. Action Comics #508

 

That's purely anecdotal, though. And having said that, I have all 5, so I may be biased.

 

I also think many are more common, but still very difficult in high grade. For example, I have a Superboy #1 that CGC gave a 9.2, and that must have been on a very lenient day - but it currently tops the census.

 

I would actually be interested in working with some folks on a project to try to figure this out... Maybe some combination of census count, GPA values and an index of ebay listings over time? Plus a few e-mails with guys like Doug Sulipa?

I think Sulipa gave a pretty thorough list in his Overstreet market report two guides ago, if that helps anyone. I recall Superboy #6 was also on his short list of the six toughest. I believe they are all from the same month in 1980, IIRC. 

[Eddie Powe]

It seems the June 1980 cover date are the hardest to find. Also some in June 1979 are somewhat difficult though not nearly as tough as 1980. I also am intrigued by what books came in packs together. Based on no definitive knowledge, I like to think Sgt. Rock 329, Warlord 22, and DCCP 10 came together. I actually had a Warlord at one time. Found it at a flea market for a buck. Sold it. Be interesting to know for sure what books came packaged together. 

 

[Brock]

It would make sense for Sgt. Rock, Warlord, and DCCP 10 (featuring Sgt. Rock) to be bagged together, as the books are more or less grouped by theme... However, I'm not sure if anyone has seen such a bag. It would be great to start a "database" of sort for bags. Someone must be out there that has this at least partially put together.

I'm particularly curious as to what DCCP 22 was bagged with... Why is this book so tough, when everything else is (relatively) easier? Wouldn't whatever it was bagged with be similarly tough?

In terms of the June 1980 books, I do have the sense that the scarcity of some of these is a bit over-hyped. They're tough, but they're not necessarily as tough as everyone makes out. For example, I bought a Legion #264 a week or two ago, but had my choice of three different copies on ebay.

The June 1980 books are, of course, very difficult in high grade.

One of my working theories (and I'm trying to figure out how to research this in more detail) is that Western's (Whitman's) U.S. distribution system seemed to collapse in late 1980. All of the 8-12/1980 Gold Key/Whitmans are tough books, and Whitman's DC 06/1980 books are tough. It is generally thought that the DC books were printed at the same time as the regular editions, and then held for bagging, so they would likely have been scheduled for release during the 8-12/1980 period. I'm thinking that something happened with Western in the US at this stage that stopped distribution of these books... but in Cambridge, Ontario Whitman had a Canadian subsidiary that was still active. They continued to distribute Whitman puzzles games, etc. during this time frame, and - by extension - it seems likely that they continued to distribute comics. By 01/1981, the U.S. operation seems to be back in full swing, and distribution returns to normal.

This scenario would explain why the books from these 5 months are so hard to find, and why they generally seem to be more prevalent in Canada (and in certain other international markets such as Scandinavia and Australia) than in the U.S. itself. I have some (limited) evidence to back up the notion that the Canadian subsidiary continued to chug along at full speed, but nothing to help understand what may have happened to the U.S. operation.

Interestingly, the Canadian subsidiary seems to have been publishing other material in this time frame as well that is not generally available in the US, including a range of digest-sized editions of various Disney properties. If these books become known on the broader market, they could really take off as well. I've only ever seen a handful of these - they're easily as difficult to find as DCCP 22.

[OtherEric]

3 hours ago, Brock said:

 

I'm particularly curious as to what DCCP 22 was bagged with... Why is this book so tough, when everything else is (relatively) easier? Wouldn't whatever it was bagged with be similarly tough?

I suspect there are more DCCP 22's out in the wild out there than people suspect... not necessarily a lot, but comparable to the other DC "big 8" Whitmans.  The Whitman logo on the DCCP 22 is much less obvious; unlike other Whitman books (including some of the earlier DCCP issues) it's not inside the DC bullet.  So it just doesn't jump out like the other books do.  I suspect some of them have been missed because people are looking for the Whitman logo in the wrong place on the issue.

[Warlord]

On 1/15/2019 at 7:00 PM, OtherEric said:

I suspect there are more DCCP 22's out in the wild out there than people suspect... not necessarily a lot, but comparable to the other DC "big 8" Whitmans.  The Whitman logo on the DCCP 22 is much less obvious; unlike other Whitman books (including some of the earlier DCCP issues) it's not inside the DC bullet.  So it just doesn't jump out like the other books do.  I suspect some of them have been missed because people are looking for the Whitman logo in the wrong place on the issue.

Yep, although DCCP22 has achieved legendary status for its rarity, it no longer deserves the title of the rarest DC Whitman IMHO.   There have been maybe 15 or more copies moved just on ebay in recent years.  I've started saving images to see how many different copies can be identified with certainty.

[Warlord]

On 1/14/2019 at 10:14 PM, Eddie Powe said:

It seems the June 1980 cover date are the hardest to find. Also some in June 1979 are somewhat difficult though not nearly as tough as 1980. I also am intrigued by what books came in packs together. Based on no definitive knowledge, I like to think Sgt. Rock 329, Warlord 22, and DCCP 10 came together. I actually had a Warlord at one time. Found it at a flea market for a buck. Sold it. Be interesting to know for sure what books came packaged together. 

 

There are 164 different DC Whitman variants.   I have documented over 50 different 2-packs and 3-packs containing DCWs.   Those packs contain about 127 DCW issues, of which about 15 issues have been observed to exist in different (multiple, more than one) package combinations.  So that works out to about 112 unique issues that I've seen in multi-packs.   Unfortunately none of the packs that I've ever seen contained Warlord 22, Sgt Rock 329, DCCP 10 that you mentioned, or the June 1980 issues Action 508, Batman 324, DCCP 22, Flash 286, JLA 179, New Adventures of Superboy 6, Superboy & LSH 265, or Superman 348.  If you do the math, there are roughly 40+ other DCWs that I've not yet seen in a 2-pack or 3-pack.

Like your find, I too found a Warlord 22 in a box at the MOC about 3 years ago.  Some people have great luck finding these in stores etc, however that's the rarest one I've ever found in person.  But I paid 5X as much as you did. Still,  I couldn't get my money out fast enough! 

[Ashley Cotter-Cairns]

I would like to be kept updated on new finds, as I want to put a definitive page / gallery together. Great work, and fascinating read!

[lighthouse]

On 7/19/2003 at 9:16 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Sorry,

Just woke up

Congrats on 40k!

[Morganmi]

Just found this Sgt. Rock 329 in my old pile of "junk Comics" actually in pretty decent shape. Here's a scan if you still need one.

[Brock]

This thread needs a bump, so here are today's new arrivals!

 

[Brock]

And another, courtesy of Greg Reece...

 

[Brock]

And another - one of the tough ones, courtesy of @DonSal1976

[Jesse-Lee]

Here's a weird question - were any of the Whitman packs known to include actual DC-branded comics, or did DC do their own packs of these same issues? Here's why I ask:

I threw down a winning bid of $9 on a whim on a local online auction for 8 comics - the books are Marvel Star Wars 1, 2, 3, and 16 (all diamond price box reprints), Mickey Mouse 189 and Donald Duck 201 (both Whitman editions) and then JLA 167 and Batman 307. Now, I double checked the auction photos and the JLA and Batman are 100% branded DC - I've seen pictures of the Whitman covers and they aren't those.

But I just thought it was a weird assortment of books - all these reprints/multi-pack books and then those two particular books that are known to exist in reprint form. So it made me think that whomever they belonged to initially would have bought them all in multi-packs somewhere. Or maybe it's just a coincidence?

[OtherEric]

3 hours ago, Jesse-Lee said:

Here's a weird question - were any of the Whitman packs known to include actual DC-branded comics, or did DC do their own packs of these same issues? Here's why I ask:

I threw down a winning bid of $9 on a whim on a local online auction for 8 comics - the books are Marvel Star Wars 1, 2, 3, and 16 (all diamond price box reprints), Mickey Mouse 189 and Donald Duck 201 (both Whitman editions) and then JLA 167 and Batman 307. Now, I double checked the auction photos and the JLA and Batman are 100% branded DC - I've seen pictures of the Whitman covers and they aren't those.

But I just thought it was a weird assortment of books - all these reprints/multi-pack books and then those two particular books that are known to exist in reprint form. So it made me think that whomever they belonged to initially would have bought them all in multi-packs somewhere. Or maybe it's just a coincidence?

I may be very wrong, but I'm not sure the Star Wars 16 was ever in a multi-pack other than the Star Wars 16-17-18.  So these sound like fairly random books to me; and that suggests to me it's just a coincidence.  But that's just an informed guess.

Great pick-up on the SW 16, by the way- it's an amazing story by Goodwin & Simonson.  It was the first story by them I ever saw, and they are one of the all time great teams.

[Jesse-Lee]

1 minute ago, OtherEric said:

I may be very wrong, but I'm not sure the Star Wars 16 was ever in a multi-pack other than the Star Wars 16-17-18.  So these sound like fairly random books to me; and that suggests to me it's just a coincidence.  But that's just an informed guess.

Great pick-up on the SW 16, by the way- it's an amazing story by Goodwin & Simonson.  It was the first story by them I ever saw, and they are one of the all time great teams.

Thanks! I see what you're saying, but I more-so meant that I think at least most of these books all came in some multi-pack at some point (like 1-3 came in a pack, 16-18 came in a pack - even though 17-18 weren't in this auction, etc.). So to see all these comics that have been included in multi-packs over time, and see those two random DC books that definitely came as Whitman editions in multi-packs, seems weird, like a pattern.

Either way, I figured they looked like interesting books for a $9 impulse bid (well, not sure on the Disney ones), and that's cool to hear on 16 - I've never read it! JLA 167 is part of a story line that ultimately leads into the Identity Crisis story which is pretty cool, and Batman 307 is the first appearance of Lucius Fox. We'll see what kind of condition these are in...

Here's a pic, should have them in-hand Thursday:

 

[Warlord]

On 9/2/2020 at 8:41 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Here's a weird question - were any of the Whitman packs known to include actual DC-branded comics, or did DC do their own packs of these same issues? Here's why I ask:

I threw down a winning bid of $9 on a whim on a local online auction for 8 comics - the books are Marvel Star Wars 1, 2, 3, and 16 (all diamond price box reprints), Mickey Mouse 189 and Donald Duck 201 (both Whitman editions) and then JLA 167 and Batman 307. Now, I double checked the auction photos and the JLA and Batman are 100% branded DC - I've seen pictures of the Whitman covers and they aren't those.

But I just thought it was a weird assortment of books - all these reprints/multi-pack books and then those two particular books that are known to exist in reprint form. So it made me think that whomever they belonged to initially would have bought them all in multi-packs somewhere. Or maybe it's just a coincidence?

Interesting question!   I am going to cautiously answer "no", there are no Whitman branded multipacks that contain normal DC-logo issues.  This is in contrast to the Whitman/Marvel production and distribution where you could find a Whitman pack with a certain Marvel issue as the black diamond variant and find the normal newsstand issue in a non-Whitman multipack.

[telerites]

I won a lot 22 DC Whitmans average grade looks like VF-/VF.  I don't have much experience in these so this thread has been great.  The ones listed as harder to find are not in this group.  I am curious is there a price point average or percent premium for these?

I am not looking to sell.  I am just wanting to know how I overpaid for the lot  

 

[Brock]

Have you got a list? That could help...

In general, although I buy them whenever I see them, most Whitmans are not especially valuable unless in very high grade. I think this will change, so I’m definitely scooping up what I can, but there are a lot of sellers whose prices are getting ahead of the market.

I think the Green Lantern, Flash and Batman issues are harder to find than the Superman, Action, DC Comics Presents or Brave and Bold issues, with the rest in the middle, but that’s a huge over generalization.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Brock