STAR WARS : The Force Awakens SPOILER Discussion

[rjrjr]

Sorry if this has been discussed. Many articles I've read explain why the films will stray from the original EU, but I haven't read whether or not Disney will allow the original EU to continue. Disney doesn't seem like a sharing type of company, so I'm wondering if the current story line (in the novels) simply end. I usually take a year or so off from reading them, then binge read until I'm caught up.

 

The EU ended late last year. A few books at the end of last year and all the stories published this year have been part of the new canon. I'm doubtful LFL will ever revisit the EU except when they need to mine it for ideas.

correct all of the books that came out before Star Wars: New Dawn" are not canon and everything from "New Dawn" forward are canon.

 

Yes, but will the pre New Dawn novels be aloud to continue with the story line I have to assume has been laid out further than what has already been published, or is it like a tv show that has suddenly been cancelled mid story? I plan on buying everything that's been released to date, but fear it simply stops and New Dawn takes over.

 

SO MUCH work has gone into the recent novels (the Yuuzhan Vong war and all that followed was amazing!). It's like a slap in the face to tell them to stop and forget what they've laid out for the New Jedi Order.

I see no good reason this EU can't continue independently of New Dawn (Walking Dead novels and the tv show don't follow each other).

 

 

 

Why is it a slap in the face?

 

My guess, Disney will not want to split the audience for Star Wars. There will be one continuity going forward. This is no different than what happened to the old Marvel Star Wars stories. They are still there for you to enjoy, but they are not part of the canon.

 

I guess the question is, will you enjoy the stories less just because they are not part of the canon?

[NewWorldOrder]

The story is basically a remake of A New Hope but for ADD kids. Unlike A new hope, the story completely ignores all forms of reason and common sense to justfy it's end goal of telling a fast paced story.

 

First off, you have this Imperial "New Order". Now, the movie explains there's a new republic. But there's also the first order operating freely, killing and terrorizing worlds like it's 30 years ago and there is still an Empire. Even more so, they are capable of building a space station that's like 10 times larger than a death star. HELLO MCFLY. They do NOT control the galaxy. They don't have thousands of conquered worlds to use for resources. They can not just go off and build it without it being detected and having the republic or the resistance come along and blow it up. Even during the OT, the empire needed to shield the construction of it's new Death star though they were firmly in control of the galaxy.

 

Second, you have Poe Dameron put his secret plans into the newer version of "R2". He disappears in the beginning of the movie even though he promises to go looking for his robot. Later in the movie, he's back with the Resistance. He's not looking for his Robot at all even though he has no way of knowing the robot has been found and returned back to the resistance.

 

There are many other plot holes and inconsistencies and just downright stupidity in the making of this movie.

 

Still liked it better than Phantom Menace though.

 

 

 

You can't be a fan of SW since most of your basic rookie questions have the answers already.

 

The only plot holes of this movie are the ones the characters in the movie actually tell you on-screen.

 

ROTJ was not the end of the Empire. It was just a very crippling loss.

 

I liked the teaser 1st preview of this movie more than any of those garbage prequels.

 

 

 

[Guardian Comics]

Saw it again on the first when I decided to take my entire family to go see it for New Years. I have changed my stance 180 degrees and I think it's absolutely brilliant now. It IS Star Wars, I knew I was in trouble when Han called out to Ben and a tear welled up in my eye and by the time Han died I was absolutely bawling like a baby.

 

I'm glad I gave it a second chance, after Seebergers incessant calling me on my phone to tell me to see it again.

 

For once you were right NWO....thank you.

 

Jim

[jsilverjanet]

I dreamt I worked as crew on the millennium falcon last night

 

Han was a good boss.

[Logan510]

I dreamt I worked as crew on the millennium falcon last night

 

Han was a good boss.

 

 

You dreamt you were Chewie?

[valiantman]

Anyone who has been married or lived with someone and then broke up has been met at the door with a box before. It usually starts with "I was cleaning out the xxx and found this xxx". After seven-plus years my ex-wife keeps finding boxes of my stuff.

 

Today she met me with two boxes of books. Contained within one was my sister's original Star Wars novel from 1976 I thought it had met its maker.

 

It's in decent shape, pictures from New Hope are within.

 

Sorry to burst the 1976 bubble, but that can't be from 1976 with a Time Magazine quote about the movie on it.

 

The movie is from 1977. There's a 1976 in the book because they're telling you when it was first printed for copyright purposes, but that particular copy is later. This site shows a similar copy as a 6th printing. http://www.rebelscum.com/30thAnn_EU.asp

[NTHstars]

Anyone who has been married or lived with someone and then broke up has been met at the door with a box before. It usually starts with "I was cleaning out the xxx and found this xxx". After seven-plus years my ex-wife keeps finding boxes of my stuff.

 

Today she met me with two boxes of books. Contained within one was my sister's original Star Wars novel from 1976 I thought it had met its maker.

 

It's in decent shape, pictures from New Hope are within.

 

Sorry to burst the 1976 bubble, but that can't be from 1976 with a Time Magazine quote about the movie on it.

 

The movie is from 1977. There's a 1976 in the book because they're telling you when it was first printed for copyright purposes, but that particular copy is later. This site shows a similar copy as a 6th printing. http://www.rebelscum.com/30thAnn_EU.asp

 

Yeah, after I looked through it a little more I found reference to a 1977 2nd edition, so maybe that's what it is. Anyway, I'm glad I found it. At least it's close to the original movie airing and kind of takes me back to those early days, when the movie was revolutionizing the movie industry.

[MR SigS]

Sorry if this has been discussed. Many articles I've read explain why the films will stray from the original EU, but I haven't read whether or not Disney will allow the original EU to continue. Disney doesn't seem like a sharing type of company, so I'm wondering if the current story line (in the novels) simply end. I usually take a year or so off from reading them, then binge read until I'm caught up.

 

The EU ended late last year. A few books at the end of last year and all the stories published this year have been part of the new canon. I'm doubtful LFL will ever revisit the EU except when they need to mine it for ideas.

correct all of the books that came out before Star Wars: New Dawn" are not canon and everything from "New Dawn" forward are canon.

 

Yes, but will the pre New Dawn novels be aloud to continue with the story line I have to assume has been laid out further than what has already been published, or is it like a tv show that has suddenly been cancelled mid story? I plan on buying everything that's been released to date, but fear it simply stops and New Dawn takes over.

 

SO MUCH work has gone into the recent novels (the Yuuzhan Vong war and all that followed was amazing!). It's like a slap in the face to tell them to stop and forget what they've laid out for the New Jedi Order.

I see no good reason this EU can't continue independently of New Dawn (Walking Dead novels and the tv show don't follow each other).

 

 

 

Why is it a slap in the face?

Because I want to know how the story line they were writing ends

 

My guess, Disney will not want to split the audience for Star Wars. There will be one continuity going forward. This is no different than what happened to the old Marvel Star Wars stories. They are still there for you to enjoy, but they are not part of the canon.

I know. I'm just disappointed that the story they were telling simply ends without conclusion.

Jaina Solo and Ben Skywalker were very interesting characters, and I was enjoying the growing tension between them and the Lost Tribe.

 

I guess the question is, will you enjoy the stories less just because they are not part of the canon?

Ultimately, I'd say probably not. I got over the prequels, after all.

As I've said, I do think it was a good film, and it definitely sets the stage for exciting times ahead. My feelings and opinions stem from my love for the novels. TBH, I have never conversed with anyone anywhere, comic collector or otherwise, who is a fan of the novels and films, and I have no idea if anyone here has been reading the novels from The New Jedi Order to The Legacy Era.

I understand that following the Legends stories would be impossible using Hamilton/Ford/Fisher because of their age. Considering how rushed the summary bridging the events from SW: ROTJ to SW: TFA felt (to me), I'd have been (sorta) okay with them using new actors playing the core characters after being "introduced" by Hamilton/Ford/Fisher, perhaps telling a tale to a group of Padawans from Luke's Jedi Academy (just an example). Of course that would have presented difficulties as well. Would the new actors need to portray Luke/Han/Leia, or Hamilton/Ford/Fisher for it to feel right?

 

This thread is almost like therapy . I realize it is what it is, and I'll grow to accept it like I accept whatever changes Marvel and DC make to their film version Heroes. After seeing THIS PAGE, I just feel it's a shame to see all the novels that have been cancelled. And it looks like there is only one more book after the last one I purchased, so it seems clear that the story just ends. It'd be nice if Disney allowed at least that story line to conclude.

 

I haven't decided if I'll finish reading the Legacy novels, including some older ones I haven't read yet, before or after I bring myself up to speed with New Dawn. I may attempt to read back and forth if it doesn't feel awkward. I guess if I can enjoy TWD via comic, novel, and television being unique and independent of each other, it might work for SW.

[MR SigS]

And I could feel a difference from the very beginning when the classic Star Wars theme began without being preceded by the 20th Century Fox theme .

That was weird.

[Spidey-fan73]

Just saw TFA. It's better than the prequel drek for sure, but still easy to pick apart.

First, Kylo Ren should NEVER, EVER take his mask off again. Dude was uglier than the first time we saw Annakin, and I'm talkin' when the helmet came off in RotJ. This whole Kylo thing reminded me of another embarrassing performance from Emo McGuire a la Spiderman 3, I was actually waiting for KR to start dancing and prancing around. (BTW don't give someone with anger management issues a light saber, or whatever his version is)

I agree with those who feel there were holes in the plot/writing and some things were rushed. Still a lot of "what happened in those 30+ years between RotJ and TFA?"

What prompted Rey's "awakening"? Who was she waiting for to come back to her? Was it Han and Leia, or Luke and xx ? The whole vision scene where Rey stumbled upon the Skywalker light saber, where did that come from all of the sudden? Was the spirit of Yoda taking her through a training vision? Or was it Luke?

R2 and 3PO only have 5 minutes of screen time combined, they were always entertaining. Someone got wires crossed if they thought that the two droids were anywhere near obnoxious as Jar-Jar? WTF?

Han dies, regardless if it was heavily anticipated. WTF?

The new "emperor" guy looks like a LoTR reject.

Last but not least.... Rey goes and finds Luke and all we get is some stupid soap opera stare down of an ending? Were the writers for The Guiding Light consulted for this scene? Again, WTF? over

[thirdgreenham]

Just saw TFA. It's better than the prequel drek for sure, but still easy to pick apart.

First, Kylo Ren should NEVER, EVER take his mask off again. Dude was uglier than the first time we saw Annakin, and I'm talkin' when the helmet came off in RotJ. This whole Kylo thing reminded me of another embarrassing performance from Emo McGuire a la Spiderman 3, I was actually waiting for KR to start dancing and prancing around. (BTW don't give someone with anger management issues a light saber, or whatever his version is)

I agree with those who feel there were holes in the plot/writing and some things were rushed. Still a lot of "what happened in those 30+ years between RotJ and TFA?"

What prompted Rey's "awakening"? Who was she waiting for to come back to her? Was it Han and Leia, or Luke and xx ? The whole vision scene where Rey stumbled upon the Skywalker light saber, where did that come from all of the sudden? Was the spirit of Yoda taking her through a training vision? Or was it Luke?

R2 and 3PO only have 5 minutes of screen time combined, they were always entertaining. Someone got wires crossed if they thought that the two droids were anywhere near obnoxious as Jar-Jar? WTF?

Han dies, regardless if it was heavily anticipated. WTF?

The new "emperor" guy looks like a LoTR reject.

Last but not least.... Rey goes and finds Luke and all we get is some stupid soap opera stare down of an ending? Were the writers for The Guiding Light consulted for this scene? Again, WTF? over

 

WTF?

[Spidey-fan73]

Exactly!

[MR SigS]

What prompted Rey's "awakening"? Who was she waiting for to come back to her? Was it Han and Leia, or Luke and xx ? The whole vision scene where Rey stumbled upon the Skywalker light saber, where did that come from all of the sudden? Was the spirit of Yoda taking her through a training vision? Or was it Luke?

As posted earlier, it kinda sounds like Luke is her father. This could open the door for some sort of intro to Mara Jade being her mother, so there's something to hope for.

 

 

Han dies, regardless if it was heavily anticipated. WTF?

Since Han reminded me of Indiana Jones in the 4th film I'm ok with it

 

 

The new "emperor" guy looks like a LoTR reject.

I would have preferred a live actor to a CG character.

 

 

Last but not least.... Rey goes and finds Luke and all we get is some stupid soap opera stare down of an ending? Were the writers for The Guiding Light consulted for this scene? Again, WTF? over

 

I'm not surprised it ended there, but yeah, it was a bit awkward after about 30 seconds or so.

[TupennyConan]

Just saw TFA. It's better than the prequel drek for sure, but still easy to pick apart.

First, Kylo Ren should NEVER, EVER take his mask off again. Dude was uglier than the first time we saw Annakin, and I'm talkin' when the helmet came off in RotJ. This whole Kylo thing reminded me of another embarrassing performance from Emo McGuire a la Spiderman 3, I was actually waiting for KR to start dancing and prancing around. (BTW don't give someone with anger management issues a light saber, or whatever his version is)

I agree with those who feel there were holes in the plot/writing and some things were rushed. Still a lot of "what happened in those 30+ years between RotJ and TFA?"

What prompted Rey's "awakening"? Who was she waiting for to come back to her? Was it Han and Leia, or Luke and xx ? The whole vision scene where Rey stumbled upon the Skywalker light saber, where did that come from all of the sudden? Was the spirit of Yoda taking her through a training vision? Or was it Luke?

R2 and 3PO only have 5 minutes of screen time combined, they were always entertaining. Someone got wires crossed if they thought that the two droids were anywhere near obnoxious as Jar-Jar? WTF?

Han dies, regardless if it was heavily anticipated. WTF?

The new "emperor" guy looks like a LoTR reject.

Last but not least.... Rey goes and finds Luke and all we get is some stupid soap opera stare down of an ending? Were the writers for The Guiding Light consulted for this scene? Again, WTF? over

 

lol

[Lethal_Collector]

I really enjoyed the film, some of my friends really think I'm nuts.

 

Here's my new, radical take on the movie....

 

1) And it's a biggie...women make better Jedi's than men. Yep, I went there. Women are all about feelings and this is something I've wondered for decades now, would a woman be better suited to be a Jedi? I think they'd pick up on the force faster/better like the movie demonstrated. I thought the final battle was well done and balanced. Kylo got injured between Fin and Rey and the calm desolate, white environment was the perfect antithesis to the heated final battle.

 

2) Kylo was obviously in training and conflicted as he said in the movie, which all of my buddies seemed to forget (how convenient). We don't know how much training he got and with that temper, I bet it wasn't a lot from a Jedi. So yes he is a wuss but they make it obvious he's trying to follow in Vader's footsteps but is well in his shadow.

 

3) Han died, get over it. His death may have killed your childhood, but his death was an analogy of his conflict he mentioned earlier, however Kylo's trying to convince himself he's bad.

 

4) How many other movie plot holes are there in other films? Thats right, a lot. People think they are the world's biggest Star Wars fan and therefore expert movie critic because they've seen the films thrice...whoopie. I have news for you, there will never be a Star Wars film that will be good enough for you. Take it for what it is, if it's so bad don't be like my friends who've seen it 3 times already but still think it's not very good.

 

5) I had a 'friend' on FB tell me there was no foreshadowing...I lol'd because the beginning of the film has Finn get his mask wiped with blood. Making him different than the other stormtroopers and FORESHADOWING his escape.

 

6) I think people read what gets posted online here and at reddit and just copy their opinions from there without thinking about things for themselves. While opinions like this make good points, we need to remember, IT'S A *spoon*ING MOVIE.

 

7) That closing scene was spectacular, can't wait to see what Luke can do now.

 

 

Jerome

[maloney414]

Not sure if they was already mentioned...

 

When I saw Snoke I thought holy smokes he's a big character. But then we find out its a hologram of him talking.

 

Which reminded me of the giant head of the Emperor in the originals.

 

So.... it would be hilarious to see Snoke in a later movie the size of Yoda.

[theThreat]

I really enjoyed the film, some of my friends really think I'm nuts.

 

Here's my new, radical take on the movie....

 

1) And it's a biggie...women make better Jedi's than men. Yep, I went there. Women are all about feelings and this is something I've wondered for decades now, would a woman be better suited to be a Jedi? I think they'd pick up on the force faster/better like the movie demonstrated. I thought the final battle was well done and balanced. Kylo got injured between Fin and Rey and the calm desolate, white environment was the perfect antithesis to the heated final battle.

 

Ok, so a woman makes for a better Jedi than a man. Does that mean that any Jedi can just pick up a lightsaber and with no training go toe-to-toe with a dark Jedi? of course not. This is a modern update political correctness gone crazy. I mean Leia was both feminist and feminine. Why did they have to turn the protagonist into an unbeatable, unstoppable warrior? Luke was well, one of the strongest Jedi ever, but even he, without Jedi training needed his life saved multiple times.

 

2) Kylo was obviously in training and conflicted as he said in the movie, which all of my buddies seemed to forget (how convenient). We don't know how much training he got and with that temper, I bet it wasn't a lot from a Jedi. So yes he is a wuss but they make it obvious he's trying to follow in Vader's footsteps but is well in his shadow.

 

A truly forgettable villain. What made Vader great? The guy was scary and totally in control over himself except the last scene of ROTJ. That's what made the last scene of ROTJ so memorable. What's with all these conflicted whiny SW villains like Anakin in the prequels?

 

3) Han died, get over it. His death may have killed your childhood, but his death was an analogy of his conflict he mentioned earlier, however Kylo's trying to convince himself he's bad.

 

I have no problem with Han dying. I mean HF basically said he didn't want to play him anymore so it was really no surprise. However, due to the fact that they didn't explore or explain anything that had to do with Kylo and Han, made the whole thing an emotionless vaccum. It's just bad writing.

 

4) How many other movie plot holes are there in other films? Thats right, a lot. People think they are the world's biggest Star Wars fan and therefore expert movie critic because they've seen the films thrice...whoopie. I have news for you, there will never be a Star Wars film that will be good enough for you. Take it for what it is, if it's so bad don't be like my friends who've seen it 3 times already but still think it's not very good.

 

People are bored and what are they going to go see on New Year's day? Point break? In the words of Yoda, box office not make movie great.

 

5) I had a 'friend' on FB tell me there was no foreshadowing...I lol'd because the beginning of the film has Finn get his mask wiped with blood. Making him different than the other stormtroopers and FORESHADOWING his escape.

 

That's not what Foreshadowing means. Blood on his mask would have been "foreshadowing" that he was going to die. But he didn't (badly hurt but not dead).

 

6) I think people read what gets posted online here and at reddit and just copy their opinions from there without thinking about things for themselves. While opinions like this make good points, we need to remember, IT'S A *spoon*ING MOVIE.

 

So the movie is one of the biggest box office hits of all time and the people who stand against it and point out it's many flaws are not thinking for themselves?

 

7) That closing scene was spectacular, can't wait to see what Luke can do now.

 

It was left like that because the movie was a mess, the OT movies had proper endings.

 

[theThreat]

You can't be a fan of SW since most of your basic rookie questions have the answers already.

 

The only plot holes of this movie are the ones the characters in the movie actually tell you on-screen.

 

ROTJ was not the end of the Empire. It was just a very crippling loss.

 

I liked the teaser 1st preview of this movie more than any of those garbage prequels.

 

 

After ROTJ the Empire was not in control of the galaxy as witnessed by the Special Edition where all the major worlds show the Stromtroopers getting tossed around and the Ewoks playing bongo drums on their helmets. That means no more Empire. Maybe if the empire was just a small group of ships in the remote part of the galaxy, that could make sense. But 30 years later, they can create a weapon more powerful then the weapon they created back when they had an Emperor and complete rulership of the galaxy is just stupid.

 

If you are truly a SW fan than honor what happened in the original trilogy and on't sweep it under the rug in the name of expedeince.

[Awax]

WTTB

[MR SigS]

You can't be a fan of SW since most of your basic rookie questions have the answers already.

 

The only plot holes of this movie are the ones the characters in the movie actually tell you on-screen.

 

ROTJ was not the end of the Empire. It was just a very crippling loss.

 

I liked the teaser 1st preview of this movie more than any of those garbage prequels.

 

 

After ROTJ the Empire was not in control of the galaxy as witnessed by the Special Edition where all the major worlds show the Stromtroopers getting tossed around and the Ewoks playing bongo drums on their helmets. That means no more Empire. Maybe if the empire was just a small group of ships in the remote part of the galaxy, that could make sense. But 30 years later, they can create a weapon more powerful then the weapon they created back when they had an Emperor and complete rulership of the galaxy is just stupid.

 

If you are truly a SW fan than honor what happened in the original trilogy and on't sweep it under the rug in the name of expedeince.

 

After the Emperor and Vader died, there was a tidal wave of would be Rulers clamoring for Palpatine's throne. There were hundreds of MILLIONS of Imperials for the Rebels to deal with. Even after they ultimately won and created The New Republic, the Empire existed, occupying the inner core of the galaxy.

I'm perfectly fine that they're still at war. I just don't like the 'brief summary' feel it had.