Less than NM+: Worthless?

[SquareChaos]

Walking Dead, as we all know, is a phenomenon unto itself - they should be lumped into the 'other' category for the purposes of this discussion.

 

 

The real change in the hobby is that people now collect slabbed books, read trade or digital (or increasingly, don't read at all), and so don't collect runs anymore. We all know it's all about keys - if you have a key modern in NM or better, chances are you can find someone that wants it. If you're trying to sell a run, things get a lot more difficult as your audience narrows considerably.

[natevegas]

Buy the book not the grade

15+ years ago youd look at 3 major conditions with distinguished pricing: Fine, VF, NM

The new standard for pricing is still 3 conditions, only difference is they start at 9.4

 

 

 

that only applies to slab collectors. I'm not one of those so if I can buy a presentable VF/NM to 9.2 NM- raw copy and save myself 100 dollars or more non slab I'll take that any day of the week. Its just a hunk of plastic with a giant flipping number on it anyways.

[jreezy]

 

Or are you talking about slabbing these books that are 9.4s and 9.6ses? Yes, then you are wasting your money (other than for a few expensive keys out there, maybe)

 

Also, when re-selling and "being out of luck," what are you talking about? Trying to get 9.8 slab prices for a 9.6 raw or re-selling these for $2-3? I think there's plenty of a market for "NM or better" moderns at $2-$3 (or even $5 or maybe more!) if they are books people care about...like those Hughes covers.

 

 

 

Agree with this post. if you are slabbing 9.4s and 9.6s of your typical modern book, you will be wasting your money. 9.8 is the standard when it comes to collecting slabbed moderns. IMO

 

Also, did someone compare 9.8 moderns to a 9.0 Action #1?

 

For my personal collection, modern books must be 9.8s. Exceptions are sketch covers.

 

My grading criteria loosens quiet a bite from copper to silver books. I buy the book and not the grade when it comes to older books. Give me a 1.0 show case 4 or AF 15 please.

 

 

 

 

 

[mschmidt]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

[SquareChaos]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

 

Agreed - I would not have a pull list at this shop.

 

Having said that... my LCS owner fights a never ending battle with Diamond and is constantly calling to get replacements on damaged stock. He caters to collectors, and he knows he'll lose them if he gives them anything less than NM copies.

[Batverse]

Whenever I do go to submit again I think I'll go with 9.8 as the minimum acceptable grade for regular blue label books.

 

The problem with that is, you need to sub 25 books at once to do that (or know someone who can lump your books in with theirs). Thats the only thing I don't like about CGC; the crazy high pre-screen requirement

 

 

Jerome

 

Does that have to be 25 of the same book or 25 books total?

[SquareChaos]

Whenever I do go to submit again I think I'll go with 9.8 as the minimum acceptable grade for regular blue label books.

 

The problem with that is, you need to sub 25 books at once to do that (or know someone who can lump your books in with theirs). Thats the only thing I don't like about CGC; the crazy high pre-screen requirement

 

 

Jerome

 

Does that have to be 25 of the same book or 25 books total?

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/services/prescreen.asp

 

 

They do not have to be the same book.

[Havok Jinx]

Whenever I do go to submit again I think I'll go with 9.8 as the minimum acceptable grade for regular blue label books.

 

The problem with that is, you need to sub 25 books at once to do that (or know someone who can lump your books in with theirs). Thats the only thing I don't like about CGC; the crazy high pre-screen requirement

 

 

Jerome

 

Does that have to be 25 of the same book or 25 books total?

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/services/prescreen.asp

 

 

They do not have to be the same book.

 

 

They don't have to be screened for the same grade either, as long as they are in the same tier.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

 

Agreed - I would not have a pull list at this shop.

 

Having said that... my LCS owner fights a never ending battle with Diamond and is constantly calling to get replacements on damaged stock. He caters to collectors, and he knows he'll lose them if he gives them anything less than NM copies.

 

Anything I buy fresh off the stand is something for me to read. So I am not looking at it as an investment or a comic to flip. However if I get a book with a large dent in the side that's beat up bad. A book I would grade grade less than 9.0 or so I do take it as a sign of disrespect as a customer.

 

I am not stupid. There is no reason for a comic 2 months old to be in that sort of condition. It is as if the store selling me the comic is trying to ensure that I am not getting my hands on something worth more than I am paying for it.

 

I find this a common occurrence.

[aerischan]

If a book is valuable in 9.8 and not in 9.4, you are almost certainly dealing with speculation boosted value. It's always a good measure of the stability and validity of a books value, if its valuable across all grades, or only at the top.

 

It's also a good way to tell when something is cooling off, because lower grade books will fall first, while the highest hold on the longest.

True. Books that are only valuable in 9.8 are likely just due to speculation rather than actual market demand. Personally, more than okay buying high grade raws or CGC 9.2-9.6s if the savings is significant.

 

Great topic. I'm curious to hear more about the 9.8 services -- including recommendations and pros & cons.

 

When I buy moderns I usually use DCBS, with the discount. Also, I usually buy them with the intention to read, not as an investment. In some cases you can recoup your purchase on eBay, but you're certainly not going to make any significant money.

I've just started a 9.8 subscription on my two currently running favorite titles from BeachBum (service not intended for speculators). Last I checked, he's offering it for $35 per issue + shipping costs.

 

Factoring in my shipping costs, slabbing fees, and CGC return shipping and mandatory insurance, BeachBum's $35 per issue + shipping is considerably less expensive than if I were to submit to CGC myself.

 

I highly doubt I'd be able to recoup even the comparatively modest cost for the 9.8 subscription if I were to ever sell but that's not why I subscribe, anyway. My goal is preservation so I'd actually be okay even with a 9.4 but I think CGC requires prescreen grades to be in large batches and BeachBum has all his subs prescreened at 9.8. I continue to buy copies of the same books from DCBS and my LCS which get stored in Mylar. By hedging my bets, I figure I should have at least one well preserved, high grade copy even decades later for my personal use.

[aerischan]

However if I get a book with a large dent in the side that's beat up bad. A book I would grade grade less than 9.0 or so I do take it as a sign of disrespect as a customer.

 

I am not stupid. There is no reason for a comic 2 months old to be in that sort of condition. It is as if the store selling me the comic is trying to ensure that I am not getting my hands on something worth more than I am paying for it.

 

I find this a common occurrence.

Honestly, I wouldn't blame it on the store. I've seen how other customers handle shelf copies so I'm not at all surprised to see 7.5-8.5 books a couple months after release.

[UltraMaximus]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

 

Agreed - I would not have a pull list at this shop.

 

Having said that... my LCS owner fights a never ending battle with Diamond and is constantly calling to get replacements on damaged stock. He caters to collectors, and he knows he'll lose them if he gives them anything less than NM copies.

 

It's not the shop it's Diamond, and the store does the same thing, sometimes never getting replacements for variants and other damaged books.

 

Since we cut out the UPS delivery and pick up the order ourselves they have gotten a little better but you guys are missing the point! Hardly any books that make it out are 9.4 or better without a press!

[Lethal_Collector]

My LCS, TFAW in Beaverton is the worst for getting books in NM- or better, they just DGAF even if you have a box. The last time I went in asking about slabbed boxes, the guy working there didn't even know what CGC was. So I've boycotted them after many fails over the years.

 

 

Jerome

[Reno McCoy]

I disagree. I have sold plenty of non 9.8 calber moderns for plenty more than I paid. Heck, I was selling tons of generic WD books for double digits each that were 8.0 - 9.4 as I had fished them out of bargain boxes before the series exploded. Ditto Deadpool first series. As for your Adam Hughes covers..depends on which one. If it's a cool cover and you say it's "NM or better" then I think there will be plenty of interest. Not every cover Hughes does is a big seller anyway.

 

Most raw modern collectors, which is 90% of the buyers out there, maybe more, want a nice copy, but it doesn't always need to be perfect.

 

As for the Preacher 1 9.0..the last few have sold for $100-$170. Considering that's probably the average grade for that book raw out in the wild, I think that's a pretty healthy price. (indeed, a raw vf/nm sold last week for as much as the last CGC 9.0 did..go figure)

 

Or are you talking about slabbing these books that are 9.4s and 9.6ses? Yes, then you are wasting your money (other than for a few expensive keys out there, maybe)

 

Also, when re-selling and "being out of luck," what are you talking about? Trying to get 9.8 slab prices for a 9.6 raw or re-selling these for $2-3? I think there's plenty of a market for "NM or better" moderns at $2-$3 (or even $5 or maybe more!) if they are books people care about...like those Hughes covers.

 

 

When I started the thread, I meant for the more common comics, those comics that people are interested in but aren't necessarily huge sellers. So Walking Dead, for example, would be considered outside of the discussion.

 

I don't do nearly the amount of speculating, purchasing, or selling as most others on here. I just buy a few titles each month, and occasionally seek out more. But I'm also a HG fool, meaning that when I see a listing on eBay for anything with a spine stress or a note that says the seller doesn't know how to grade but he thinks it's NM, then I look elsewhere. But it seems to me that more and more collectors are going high grade. Maybe readers are going digital, and collectors are learning to seek out the best of the best, I don't know.

 

Part of it for me, when I say "out of luck," is that I'm honest in my listings. I typically point out a spine stress or tic mark or whatever. It feels dishonest not to point those things out because, as a collector, those are the things I look to avoid. And once I enter that information, I greatly reduce the number of potential buyers. But again, that's with a tiny sample size, so pure speculation.

 

Reading threads on here and also gravitating toward auctions for HG comics probably skews reality.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Honestly, I wouldn't blame it on the store. I've seen how other customers handle shelf copies so I'm not at all surprised to see 7.5-8.5 books a couple months after release.

 

I know better in that the sub-service customers are the ones who got the highest grades and that I do blame on the shop. Not every book is born perfect but gone are the days of printing mishaps and twine tied bundles being carelessly tossed on newsstand doorsteps.

 

You are right though. I should not sound paranoid but what grinds my gears is that books in that type of condition should not be selling for cover price un-bagged with no boards. I expect more because I am an educated consumer and I am free to go elsewhere.

 

 

[fastballspecial]

This is the current market in a nutshell. Will it stay this way? Who knows when the money disappears so will a lot of "so called collectors". So around 2018-19 I guess.

 

Really then we will only get an accurate view of the market. Or you can just look at a book from issue 1 to issue 4 and judge whether its being read or speculated on. When the bottom drops in this market its going to be a hard fall. The amount of speculations driving the market currently is artificially inflating true numbers.

 

I have no problem currently selling raw VF/NM or better. The price point I have found determines how much the collector wants the lower grade vs completing their collection. A true high grade collector is simply that and I wont bother even telling them about a book unless its NM+. Their money is the same green I don't care what they plan to do to the book.

 

 

 

 

 

[fastballspecial]

However if I get a book with a large dent in the side that's beat up bad. A book I would grade grade less than 9.0 or so I do take it as a sign of disrespect as a customer.

 

I am not stupid. There is no reason for a comic 2 months old to be in that sort of condition. It is as if the store selling me the comic is trying to ensure that I am not getting my hands on something worth more than I am paying for it.

 

I find this a common occurrence.

Honestly, I wouldn't blame it on the store. I've seen how other customers handle shelf copies so I'm not at all surprised to see 7.5-8.5 books a couple months after release.

 

Yeah and you gotta love the guy that goes thru every copy as well. Local shops struggle with board and bagging comics versus leaving them out on the stand. Ive seen it both ways and while I prefer boarded and bagged I can see why some shops don't do it.

 

[H0RR0RSH0W]

This is the current market in a nutshell. Will it stay this way? Who knows when the money disappears so will a lot of "so called collectors". So around 2018-19 I guess.

Really then we will only get an accurate view of the market. Or you can just look at a book from issue 1 to issue 4 and judge whether its being read or speculated on. When the bottom drops in this market its going to be a hard fall. The amount of speculations driving the market currently is artificially inflating true numbers.

 

I have no problem currently selling raw VF/NM or better. The price point I have found determines how much the collector wants the lower grade vs completing their collection. A true high grade collector is simply that and I wont bother even telling them about a book unless its NM+. Their money is the same green I don't care what they plan to do to the book.

 

 

 

I think think this really true. Especially what I highlighted.

 

Aren't sub-services for speculating on 9.8's what they would call in other collecting hobbies "manufactured collectibles"? Meaning: there is nothing really valuable or collectible about it other than it being in a shiny plastic case. Example : $100 listing price for a book that just sold for $3 .

[SquareChaos]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

 

Agreed - I would not have a pull list at this shop.

 

Having said that... my LCS owner fights a never ending battle with Diamond and is constantly calling to get replacements on damaged stock. He caters to collectors, and he knows he'll lose them if he gives them anything less than NM copies.

 

It's not the shop it's Diamond, and the store does the same thing, sometimes never getting replacements for variants and other damaged books.

 

Since we cut out the UPS delivery and pick up the order ourselves they have gotten a little better but you guys are missing the point! Hardly any books that make it out are 9.4 or better without a press!

 

Well, I don't think I'm missing the point, I referenced Diamond. I've talked to shop owners quite a bit, and I've even seen some stock come in where it was just packed loosely into a half full cardboard box and left to rattle around... sometimes with hardcover trades in the same box, so you can imagine the crumpled mess that comes out of there.

 

The real point is, any shop that tries to sell me a battered mess of a brand new book is not doing themselves any favors. I know it's not (always) the shops fault that a book is in bad condition, but at the end of the day it is their wares and they have to be responsible for the quality of the product they offer me. I much prefer a shop owner apologizing to me and saying they need to reach out to their network to get a quality copy of a book on my pull list. I don't want to get a beat up mess in my pull box, and then have to go talk to them about it and have them act surprised like it just materialized in the box in that condition and no one knew about it.

[Bird]

I feel the same way about anything under 9.0 but for me VF/NM is still pretty darn good considering I wok at a comic shop, and know 8.5 VF+ to be the average condition a book arrives in.

 

If that's truly the case, your shop needs to stop intentionally damaging their books.

 

8.5 for a brand new modern is crazy low - there's no chance that's the average condition for books coming from Diamond.

 

Agreed - I would not have a pull list at this shop.

 

Having said that... my LCS owner fights a never ending battle with Diamond and is constantly calling to get replacements on damaged stock. He caters to collectors, and he knows he'll lose them if he gives them anything less than NM copies.

 

It's not the shop it's Diamond, and the store does the same thing, sometimes never getting replacements for variants and other damaged books.

 

Since we cut out the UPS delivery and pick up the order ourselves they have gotten a little better but you guys are missing the point! Hardly any books that make it out are 9.4 or better without a press!

 

I have been buying bulk from a LCS; he gets his order and takes mine from there and puts it back in the boxes. I had to look carefully, doing my own "pre-screen", but I subbed 18/20 9.8s recently, and the 9.4 and 9.6 were books I had held onto while the 18 9.8s were all books bought in bulk recently. Actually, not true - I got 14 9.8s and 2 9.9s! So it can be done. But I also see problems as well...Doom Patrol Bolland cover had every one with a top corner ding for instance. The boxes could be sturdier. One of the retailers here told of someone telling Diamond the box has stayed the same as its' contents value has increased significantly (10X I think it was, but you get the point. The Diamond boxes should be better.).