Jim Starlin hates CGC! 3 3

[jcjames]

11 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Marv Wolfman has been very fortunate because of New Teen Titans. According to Perez, both he and Marv were given quite lucrative deals on NTT, for which George said he no longer has to work.

I don't have very much sympathy for ANYONE who complains about how things used to be. No one forced them to draw comics for a living. It's a BAD argument. Bob Kane...at the very DAWN of comics...had the savvy to get National to write up a contract that gave him credit in perpetuity, and it was apparently a very lucrative deal, too.

They had lawyers in 1938, and 1933, and 1952, and 1961. They had royalties in those years, too. Why couldn't these other creators have done the same thing...?

Answer: because they WILLINGLY TRADED risk for security. They chose to work for established publishers, and didn't dictate terms up front. They got themselves a relatively secure job in exchange for none of the risk. That's how it works, folks, and how it's always worked. If they wanted to take the risk, they should have struck out on their own...like Bill Gaines did in 1950-ish (turning his father's Educational Comics into Entertaining Comics, and setting the comics world on fire)...or like Wally Wood did with "wiztend" in 1966 or Tower Comics...or Dave Sim did with Aardvark-Vanaheim in 1977...or Neal Adams did with Continuity in 1984...or Jim Shooter did with Valiant in 1989...or the Image boys did in 1992.

These ventures carry RISK. They aren't a guarantee. That's why a lot of creators would rather work for a steady paycheck...which comes with its own drawbacks, their creations not belonging to them being the main one.

Not that it's anyone's business...but if Marv doesn't count my money, I promise not to count his.

Question: if I get a 9.4 New Teen Titans #29, do I get a rebate from Wolfman...? Or any of the others who charge a "CGC/slabbing premium" because I'm "making money off their sig"...?

I mean, if it's profit sharing they want, the other side of that comes into play too, does it not...?

 

Answer: They'll, once again, go the safe low-risk route and stick with their guaranteed fees.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

15 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Wow...

Wow what? What could possibly be controversial about that comment?

Creator: "I'm charging you an additional amount because I have the perception that you're getting my signature to make money from it."

Me: "Ok...so, if I don't actually make money off of it...which is the whole reason you're charging me a surcharge...then do I get a refund? Since the whole premise of your charge is because I would, in your perception, be 'making money'. Right? So, if I don't actually make money, then you would, of course, be perfectly willing to refund me."

Why is this...AT ALL..controversial?

It's basic common sense.

And it perfectly illustrates the rudeness and absurdity of such a position by such creators in the first place. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't charge extra because you think someone is "profiting" from you, but assume NONE of the risk involved in such a transaction. Charge or not, but if you charge, basic reason and decency says to charge the same price for everyone. It's none of your business what people do with their property...again, despite what the laughably ignorant at Voldemort's board "think" (and I use that term quite advisedly)...and I'll thank you not to put ANYONE in that position in the first place.

Don't count my money, and I won't count yours. In fact, I won't count your money even if you count mine. It's tacky and rude. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 hours ago, F For Fake said:

This is my problem as well. I don't do SS, but I AM a bit OCD about my books, so I have in the past down the window bag and tape thing, just because the books are going to be jostling about in my bag the rest of the day, I don't want them getting trashed. I've had some creators make some snarky comments, but oh well.  

Most creators have no concept of "condition." And they don't need to. It's perfectly understandable why they have no concept of it. It's also perfectly understandable why collectors DO. 

Just because one likes to keep ones comics in the best shape possible does not therefore mean they have no regard for the creative efforts contained therein. On the contrary, MOST of the time, it's because they absolutely do.

Understanding that, I have put comics to be signed in window bags with sometimes as many as 4-6 boards, to make sure that even the most ham-fisted creators....and there are some ham-fisted creators out there...don't crunch my books. Why? Because it matters TO ME. And, since it's MY property, what matters TO ME should be of concern to anyone who deals with it, as YOUR property matters TO YOU, and I do what I can to make sure YOUR property is not carelessly handled, too.

You don't have to justify yourself to anyone about it. It matters TO YOU, and that's the only reason anyone ever needs.

[kav]

On 5/15/2017 at 7:34 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Let's stay away from the personal commentary about others, yes?

"despite what the laughably ignorant at Voldemort's board "think" (and I use that term quite advisedly)."

Edited May 31, 2017 by kav

[nWo_22]

On 5/14/2017 at 6:55 AM, ComicConnoisseur said:

Creators should sign these comic books for free to show their appreciation to the fans who have supported them thru all the years. 

I never got why these comic artists/writers charged their loyal fans for an autograph. These creators should give back to the fans who still care about them to go see them by lining up in a line for hours.

 

 

#1 No one needs to anything.  No artist or writer owns me anything.  They did comic book work, I enjoyed it, so what?

#2  Tell that to Bill Finger! 50% creator of Batman and the gotham universe.  That guy deserved more $ per signature than any us can comprehend.  

Many old school writers and artists got shafted back in the day.  So let them make some $ on the back end is 110% fine with me.

[Prince Namor]

On 5/29/2017 at 11:25 AM, ComicConnoisseur said:

The guy owned his own comic book company and owns his own art studio. Was the top comic book artist up there with Kirby and Frazetta. I am sure he cleared at least a few million in his 50 year career. Remember this is the guy who got Siegal and Shuster good deals from DC, so he is business savy.

This site says he is much richer that that. I don't know if he is that rich,but he has to be a millionaire.

http://heightweighnetworth.com/neal-adams/

 

It's on the internet, so it's true!

Neal Adams is NOT worth 94 million dollars. The only facts I have to prove it, is my common sense.

[Silver Surfer]

SS books in general are stupid but that is just my opinion. Unless its a modern or a sketch that us being signed it makes me cringe to see a vintage book being ruined, especially if its in high grade. If someone wrote on my books when I was a kid I'm pretty sure there would have been a fight. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

6 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It's on the internet, so it's true!

Neal Adams is NOT worth 94 million dollars. The only facts I have to prove it, is my common sense.

 Of course he is not worth 94 million dollars,but I am pretty sure he is worth at least a million.  

Edited June 1, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Logan510]

2 hours ago, Silver Surfer said:

SS books in general are stupid but that is just my opinion. Unless its a modern or a sketch that us being signed it makes me cringe to see a vintage book being ruined, especially if its in high grade. If someone wrote on my books when I was a kid I'm pretty sure there would have been a fight. 

That's why Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors  I'm not a big SS guy, I don't own any, but some of the people here have some really cool ones IMHO.

I absolutely treasure the unslabbed books I have that I have gotten signed over the years.

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 5/30/2017 at 11:37 PM, nWo_22 said:

#1 No one needs to anything.  No artist or writer owns me anything.  They did comic book work, I enjoyed it, so what?

#2  Tell that to Bill Finger! 50% creator of Batman and the gotham universe.  That guy deserved more $ per signature than any us can comprehend.  

Many old school writers and artists got shafted back in the day.  So let them make some $ on the back end is 110% fine with me.

No one has to do anything is correct,but it sure would be nice for these creators to show goodwill to their loyal fans.  They should show good virtue and have empathy with their fans who wait in line. 

Because these old school creators got shafted back in the day doesn't mean that it is OK to shaft their loyal fans today.  

Two wrongs don't make a right.  

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

No one has to do anything is correct,but it sure would be nice for these creators to show goodwill to their loyal fans.  They should show good virtue and have empathy with their fans who wait in line. 

Because these old school creators got shafted back in the day doesn't mean that it is OK to shaft their loyal fans today.  

Two wrongs don't make a right.  

I guess it depends on whether one feels shafted or not?  I have gotten a few SS books done and I was more than happy to pay the creator what they were asking.

[ComicConnoisseur]

38 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

I guess it depends on whether one feels shafted or not?  I have gotten a few SS books done and I was more than happy to pay the creator what they were asking.

First, I am glad you are happy about your purchase ,but I am looking at the collectivistic bigger picture than just the individualistic point of view.

That is what it is. These creators know there is a good number of their loyal fans who will be happy. I see them taken advantage in away of their fans. Yep,no one is putting a gun to the fan's heads to buy the autographs,but it just doesn't seem right that these creators want to take extra from the fans when these creators could just reward their fans with a free sig for supporting them all these years.

It is a business. That's why they charge for their autographs I know that,but as long as the customers pay them for their sig they will be happy to charge for it. Someday though in the future I would hope the future upcoming modern creators would have a new mind-set and not charge their loyal customers for their autographs.

BTW, I am not just pointing out Neal Adams and Steranko. I like Neal Adams and Steranko's work. I am just using them as the examples, as they are the top dogs and they set the precedent for this.

The buck stops here with them as they say. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[oakman29]

11 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

 Of course he is not worth 94 million dollars,but I am pretty sure he is worth at least a million.  

With all that money you would think he would own more than a blue shirt.

[SteppinRazor]

10 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

First, I am glad you are happy about your purchase ,but I am looking at the collectivistic bigger picture than just the individualistic point of view.

That is what it is. These creators know there is a good number of their loyal fans who will be happy. I see them taken advantage in away of their fans. Yep,no one is putting a gun to the fan's heads to buy the autographs,but it just doesn't seem right that these creators want to take extra from the fans when these creators could just reward their fans with a free sig for supporting them all these years.

It is a business. That's why they charge for their autographs I know that,but as long as the customers pay them for their sig they will be happy to charge for it. Someday though in the future I would hope the future upcoming modern creators would have a new mind-set and not charge their loyal customers for their autographs.

BTW, I am not just pointing out Neal Adams and Steranko. I like Neal Adams and Steranko's work. I am just using them as the examples, as they are the top dogs and they set the precedent for this.

The buck stops here with them as they say. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does the creator owe their fans?

[rjrjr]

11 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

 Of course he is not worth 94 million dollars,but I am pretty sure he is worth at least a million.  

Everyone at his age should be at least worth a million, regardless of which industry they worked in.  How else are they going to retire?

[rjrjr]

28 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

Why does the creator owe their fans?

They don't.  Fan entitlement is one of the reasons why these creators are so jaded IMHO.

[revat]

23 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

Why does the creator owe their fans?

I agree.  Creators don't owe their fans a thing aside from doing their best on the work they're paid to do, same as anyone at any job.  But by the same token, companies also don't owe any creators anything other than what they legally agreed to pay them. 

BUT if I were the kind of creator who went to a comic con, KNOWING I would meet fans, I would THINK I would want them to have a great interaction with me, especially anyone who I KNOW has at some point purchased a copy of my work (regardless of why they bought it).  And I while I admittedly not like to 'miss out' on a few dollars here and there if I could avoid it, I'd much rather make sure everyone has a great interaction with me.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

With all that money you would think he would own more than a blue shirt.

Lol! 

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, SteppinRazor said:

Why does the creator owe their fans?

Respect. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

What I don't understand is how protecting a book with tape or the grade of a book in another manner along with asking them to sign a book or tons of books when their at a signing to sign is somehow disrespecting the creator?