NoMan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 5 hours ago, grebal said: A couple of thoughts of maybe why FF has so lost it's roots. With most successful comics I've noticed a good blend between the 'soap' parts, and the story/sci-fi parts of. Peter Parker had his love life and Flash Thompson, DD had his Froggy and Karen, etc. Imo, with FF they lost sight of the soap part of FF that used to keep the story together and interesting - the core family aspect. I never minded the substitute muscle for Ben Grimm, like Thundra or Medusa or as things went on She Hulk etc., because the family aspect remained central to story. And poorly depicted some characters and villains - e.g. Doom is a good character that's been poorly handled in the movies and blundered with the Reed-Sue-Victor love triangle or overdose of teen angst. For FF most of the storylines/villains tended to draw more from sci-fi and monster, than the usual comicbook fantasy (galactus eating worlds, annihilus/negative zone, watcher), which might not translate as well to film. Anyway, the movies s u c k e d pretty bad, and the FF comics in the 90s and last decade that I've skimmed through also were pretty mediocre, as I recall. Can't afford the Omnibus' from the beginning. When does it get incredibly good, #44? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, NoMan said: Can't afford the Omnibus' from the beginning. When does it get incredibly good, #44? #1-5. After that it is all downhill........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteppinRazor Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 6 hours ago, grebal said: For FF most of the storylines/villains tended to draw more from sci-fi and monster yeah. Their aesthetic was the adventure/space movie of the 50s and 60s. They got away from that and didn't have the individual personality to survive that. Doom did, though. I would love to see an FF trilogy along the lines of the original Star Wars, with a Doom Strikes Back second flick. Just less heoric epic and more MST3K type movie. ThothAmon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, kimik said: #1-5. After that it is all downhill........ strongly disagree. Some of the best silver age reading comes from the FF: 25-26 48-50 is extremely good for story. zosocane and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, kimik said: #1-5. After that it is all downhill........ Not a chance. Early issues were crud, poorly written and Kirby's art was brutal. Honestly, I'm surprised FF caught on and the rest of the Marvel Universe got a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29dukedog Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, Artboy99 said: 1 hour ago, kimik said: #1-5. After that it is all downhill........ strongly disagree. Some of the best silver age reading comes from the FF: 25-26 48-50 is extremely good for story. I hope I'm sensing a lot of sarcasm there. The FF started out great and didn't even begin to backslide until issue #80 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, thehumantorch said: Not a chance. Early issues were crud, poorly written and Kirby's art was brutal. Honestly, I'm surprised FF caught on and the rest of the Marvel Universe got a chance. That is by far the best of the FF. It gets hokey around issue 8 or so. ASM was much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just now, kimik said: That is by far the best of the FF. It gets hokey around issue 8 or so. ASM was much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebal Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 ^ Agreed, with the movies they could have gone in so many different directions and still kept the core aspects that made FF unique. As members have pointed out, the whole 'who owns this property?' has certainly complicated efforts, but the scripts of every FF movie ever made have been mediocre, at best. Could've gone with Super Skrull impersonating people (look at how well Mystique has been treated in X-Films), invasion from space (Avengers already did it, but since when has "already did it" mattered to Marvel?), Wyatt Wingfoot the athletic American Indian (meta him up a bit), Agatha the old lady au pair Witch (needn't be as trippy as Doc Strange to turn witchcraft into a subplot B or C story), a villain team-up of Subby and Doom, or Frightful Four. Sure they don't own Inhumans or Warlock, but heck they might have blown those anyway, look at how unimpressively they depicted Galactus, or lackluster Surfer was. Ken: I must read Hickman run, thanks for the recommendation. When I said '90s or last decade' I mean the decade preceding this one, not the past 10 years, thank you. No Man: I think most of the Lee/Kirby run is pretty solid, which I'm pretty sure runs through the early single-digit 100s. But when it comes to stand-out great, you picked a good start: some really fun reads starting with the mysterious Inhumans showing up, although there were very few outright duds prior to then (Infant Terrible in early 20s comes to mind). Oh, and Steppin Razor, in that other thread speculating on future demand, I meant to say "contains (what may be flawed) assumptions", not "flawed assumptions." Oops, but you got the point of my guess, so no harm done. SteppinRazor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Sorry for the double post. Edited June 27, 2017 by kimik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, thehumantorch said: It is not even close. FF was the first Marvel super-hero book, but definitely not the greatest comic of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicksilver Signs Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 39-94 was Lee/Kirby at their best, with big thanks to Joe Sinnott. For me, Spider-man is still the best but FF is up there in the silver age. chrisco37 and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMan Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 maybe a huge budget animated film? Thanks Grebal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) One can argue the top slot of course, and which chunk of FF is the best, but most of the series was, in each era, one of the better if not best few Marvel titles. The first 150 issues are mostly strong; of course peaks and valleys but what 150-issue run does not have them? There might be less agreement on the next 100, but I recall enjoying much of it. (191 is an all-time great tear jerker) And I know the Byrne run, where they started to lose me, is preferred by many. And before I get hammered by the Byrne run lovers, I love, love #250 as an old-school hero mix-up/disguised villain throwdown. Edited June 27, 2017 by Readcomix Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury Man Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The fact there is NO FF title being published by Marvel right now is pure insanity. Obviously Squirrel Girl, Devil Dinosaur or US Avengers needed their utmost attention and support (pffft!!!). I don't care who owns the movie rights, FF needs a monthly! They ARE Marvel. I always thought they should be permanently stationed in Space. Enough of tearing up Manhattan every 2 months. Space Station 4! They can do Negative Zone, Skrull-Kree, Thanos, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Ronin, all the Cosmic stuff. Maybe even team up with the Nova Corps or even become the Scientific body of the Nova Corps. Possibilities! But no.....Great Lakes Avengers needed their efforts because it was such a great title the first go-around. KEY ISSUES Comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Super Stretchy guy, an invisible girl, a rock monster not quite as strong as a couple dozen heroes and a teenage brat who can flame on. Its amazing they got as far as they did. In the DC Universe, they'd have been relegated to minor roles in the Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'll tell you what happened - the editors at Marvel thought putting their new age twist on "Flame on!" was a gimme, so they just skipped it altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Mercury Man said: The fact there is NO FF title being published by Marvel right now is pure insanity. Infamous Iron Man is the current FF series if you need a fix of Doom as hero while fighting rocky guy, stretchy guy etc... etc.. Edited June 27, 2017 by bababooey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury Man Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, bababooey said: Infamous Iron Man is the current FF series if you need a fix of Doom doing his Superior thing & fighting rocky guy, stretchy guy etc... etc.. Bah! Don't get me started on what they've been doing with Tony Stark. Superior Doom and RiRi is RiRitarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Mercury Man said: 15 minutes ago, bababooey said: Infamous Iron Man is the current FF series if you need a fix of Doom doing his Superior thing & fighting rocky guy, stretchy guy etc... etc.. Bah! Don't get me started on what they've been doing with Tony Stark. Superior Doom and RiRi is RiRitarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
