Is this a bad idea? 3 3

[oakman29]

29 minutes ago, Flambit said:

This was actually the subject of first ever CGC OA thread on this board back in 2005:  

 

I'm still waiting patiently.

[Michael Browning]

17 minutes ago, Readcomix said:

This happens with comics art too. I got a page of Romita Jr from his first issue of Iron Man, #116, and on the back, uninked, is a bust of Tony Stark. He was clearly working things out, and it makes the page a lot cooler, IMO.

Completely different than someone not associated with the production of that art writing or signing it. A lot of artists sketched on the backs of the art pages before they went to the full drawings on the front. But, what is being discussed here is a current owner writing on the back of the art -- long after it's been drawn and sent through production.

[Michael Browning]

7 hours ago, Michaeld said:

I have wondered if it would be a good idea to sign your name in pen (not large but legible) on the back of the art you own with the date of purchase and eventually the date you sold it. The next owner would do the same. This would prove ownership if it is lost and also create a provenance directly on the piece. I don't think it would negatively affect the value and it would be interesting to see who else in your hobby has own your art. I don't see much negative in this. Do you?

Even artists and dealers who used to write in the price of the art on the backs of the pages SEVERAL YEARS AGO didn't sign it in PEN. They signed it lightly in pencil.

[Michael Browning]

One more thing while I'm on here, the back of art isn't like the library book cards inside books at the library where you write in your name and it gets a date stamp. If you want that, fill out a card and tuck it neatly into the bag or mylar. It's that simple and doesn't damage the art.

The way the OP is thinking about this is like owning a VW Beetle and putting a bumper sticker on it for every town you drive it through.

[Readcomix]

45 minutes ago, Michael Browning said:

Completely different than someone not associated with the production of that art writing or signing it. A lot of artists sketched on the backs of the art pages before they went to the full drawings on the front. But, what is being discussed here is a current owner writing on the back of the art -- long after it's been drawn and sent through production.

Sorry MB but you misunderstood me because I failed to edit down the quote from Vodou to just the part about how some of the coolest stuff in fine art is often on the back. I was agreeing with that point, saying we get that sometimes in comics OA too, but I think I should have snipped down how much I quoted from him. Sorry to confuse! 

[Michaeld]

Does anyone have a page with pen writing on the back that bled through to the front? To be honest I wouldn't do this either. My reason being that I'm paranoid about it decreasing the value. The trouble is I can't think of a reason why it would decrease the value. I would like to know where the piece has been in the past. Comic art is only growing in value. The buying pool is growing. I don't think it is beyond imagination that eventually it will be treated as fine art. Provenance will become important. Is anyone tracking sales? Should we? And how?

[SquareChaos]

26 minutes ago, Michaeld said:

Does anyone have a page with pen writing on the back that bled through to the front? To be honest I wouldn't do this either. My reason being that I'm paranoid about it decreasing the value. The trouble is I can't think of a reason why it would decrease the value. I would like to know where the piece has been in the past. Comic art is only growing in value. The buying pool is growing. I don't think it is beyond imagination that eventually it will be treated as fine art. Provenance will become important. Is anyone tracking sales? Should we? And how?

You'd do it like almost anything else is done now a days... some third party would certify it (market solution) or a de-centralized optional in-crowd solution would pop up, some website the community could use to attempt to track the chain of possession.

I don't find it likely in this hobby, it seems like a lot of people like anonymity and secrecy.

Edited September 8, 2017 by SquareChaos
Clarity

[Michael Browning]

56 minutes ago, Michaeld said:

Does anyone have a page with pen writing on the back that bled through to the front? To be honest I wouldn't do this either. My reason being that I'm paranoid about it decreasing the value. The trouble is I can't think of a reason why it would decrease the value. I would like to know where the piece has been in the past. Comic art is only growing in value. The buying pool is growing. I don't think it is beyond imagination that eventually it will be treated as fine art. Provenance will become important. Is anyone tracking sales? Should we? And how?

So, in the future, you think that someone is going to analyze who has owned page 12 of Dakota North #4 or Ghost Rider #38 page 8? No. The art itself causes it to be worth more and more, not who owned it back in September 1989 and who owned it in May of 1997 and then who owned it in October 2015.

How much art is in black hole collections that will never have any provenance provided to future buyers? When that art becomes available, no one is asking who owned it. Do you think people are going to pay a lot more because the writing on the back includes the names MichaelD and Michael Browning? Some of this art has changed hands so many times since I started collecting 20 years ago and I couldn't care less who owned it before me, as long as it is in my collection.

[Steven Ng]

Early on, I once bought an original art page and the artist asked me if I'd like the page inscribed to me. I was caught off guard and didn't have a ready answer. I ended up asking for the inscription on the back. I haven't done it since, but it doesn't bother me. 

Best,

Steven

 

[cloud cloddie]

Keep talking about writing your name on the back of art. Pretty soon coollines will decide the postcards they send out with every piece are cutting into their profits and will just start stamping the back of every page. 

Altering art just seems like a bad idea. 

[stinkininkin]

Pencilled statement of past ownership and old prices on back don't bother me in the slightest.  I have numerous pieces that have old prices and I think it's pretty cool watching the price points of decades past.  I also have one or two names of past owners as well.  I'm talking Neal Adams Avengers pages and classic Kirby.  It's the back people.  These aren't slabbed comics where condition is the be all end all. Chill.

Scott 

[mister_not_so_nice]

I wouldn't NOT buy a page because someone wrote their name on the back.  I don't prefer a page to be personalized, but I've got a couple of those since i like the pages. 

 

I could see if this became a trend that collectors with pass-thru collections could cycle even more pages through so they have even more for their "gone but not forgotten" CAF folders  

Edited September 8, 2017 by mister_not_so_nice

[SquareChaos]

3 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Pencilled statement of past ownership and old prices on back don't bother me in the slightest.  I have numerous pieces that have old prices and I think it's pretty cool watching the price points of decades past.  I also have one or two names of past owners as well.  I'm talking Neal Adams Avengers pages and classic Kirby.  It's the back people.  These aren't slabbed comics where condition is the be all end all. Chill.

Scott 

I agree with this - as I stated in an earlier comment it won't impact the value. But again, it doesn't solve the chain of possession problem OP originally seemed concerned about.

[Michaeld]

1 hour ago, Michael Browning said:

So, in the future, you think that someone is going to analyze who has owned page 12 of Dakota North #4 or Ghost Rider #38 page 8? No. The art itself causes it to be worth more and more, not who owned it back in September 1989 and who owned it in May of 1997 and then who owned it in October 2015.

How much art is in black hole collections that will never have any provenance provided to future buyers? When that art becomes available, no one is asking who owned it. Do you think people are going to pay a lot more because the writing on the back includes the names MichaelD and Michael Browning? Some of this art has changed hands so many times since I started collecting 20 years ago and I couldn't care less who owned it before me, as long as it is in my collection.

Your not interested In who owned it before you Michael. We get it. But what is the harm in others knowing some of the history of their pieces if they are intersted. If it doesn't diminish the value what is the harm?

[▫️]

10 minutes ago, Michaeld said:

Your not interested In who owned it before you Michael. We get it. But what is the harm in others knowing some of the history of their pieces if they are intersted. If it doesn't diminish the value what is the harm?

If only one OCD collector with deep pockets wants the art original and untouched since publication, then yes, there would be harm in that final auction bid.  Unlikely but not impossible.

[SquareChaos]

2 minutes ago, Grails said:

If only one OCD collector with deep pockets wants the art original and untouched since publication, then yes, there would be harm in that final auction bid.  Unlikely but not impossible.

This guy is about as  likely to exist as the collector with deep pockets who refuses to purchase the page unless every previous owner has recorded their name on the back of the page. 

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Grails said:

I'm not so sure.  My OCD is not as bad but I passed on a cover I really wanted because the owner had the writer sign it in the margin on the cover.  I also don't like it when when a well known cover is published without the artist signing it and years later, the owner gets its signed.  To me, that's now how it was published.  I know I'm strange but I'm not alone.

You passed on a cover you really wanted because the artist signed it post-publication? That is pretty odd behavior. I could see passing on something you weren't too crazy about, but not something you actually want. I mean, a 'better version' isn't coming along ever.

Edited September 8, 2017 by SquareChaos

[SquareChaos]

Just now, Grails said:

Well its true and I miss out on some great art because I really don't want anything added once it leaves the publication process.  I have an unsigned Sam Kieth cover that I would never have him sign.  Thats the way it was printed.

I guess I stand corrected then. I honestly see no reason why someone would feel so strongly about the artist's signature coming at a later date... though I am assuming you mean the page was signed in the margins, not across the middle of the art. I've seen a few of those and typically wouldn't touch them either as that obviously impacts the work.

[▫️]

24 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I guess I stand corrected then. I honestly see no reason why someone would feel so strongly about the artist's signature coming at a later date... though I am assuming you mean the page was signed in the margins, not across the middle of the art. I've seen a few of those and typically wouldn't touch them either as that obviously impacts the work.

Maybe I'm the only one and others may benefit from my OCD.  I mean I love all the handwritten production notes in the margins and on the back but it was all part of the process.  Once the art leaves that state and is out in the world, I would absolutely prefer it to remain "original" to that time with nothing new added.  And there is always more OA out there that will fit the bill for me in the way I prefer it.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Grails

[BCarter27]

Selling is risky. It's also about not giving a potential buyer any reason to walk away. And remember in an auction, your pool of buyers always narrows to two.

And the ink will bleed through.

And I will erase the pencils.

That being said, if you REALLY want to record provenance, keep an acid-free index card stored with the piece and record your date of purchase and your name on it -- the "library card" method. Pass it along with the piece when you sell it. If the next person doesn't want to record anything on their line, or leave the price blank, they can do so. Who knows? It could catch on.