Heritage Fall Signature Auction 5 5

[sagii]

52 minutes ago, telerites said:

I won something in Hakes. I watched the HA but most of the time HA Sig Auctions are too nosebleed for me. 

I won something on Hakes too  little bit of a tug of war and a wonky endless 10 minute warning (they need to work on that) but ultimately the other bidder walked away.

I too have not won a piece a HA Signature auction in recent years for the same reason. I fare much better in their Sunday auctions lately. 

[Ricksneatstuff]

I was in a Star Trek mood on Hakes and got a couple cool things. A Star Trek 1 mid grade and a very cool signed 1973 convention program

 

 

[sagii]

24 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I was in a Star Trek mood on Hakes and got a couple cool things. A Star Trek 1 mid grade and a very cool signed 1973 convention program

 

 

Nice! 

Wow, look at them all then..

[BuscemasAvengers]

28 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I was in a Star Trek mood on Hakes and got a couple cool things. A Star Trek 1 mid grade and a very cool signed 1973 convention program

 

 

Chekov ... Mo-vember!

[telerites]

52 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I was in a Star Trek mood on Hakes and got a couple cool things. A Star Trek 1 mid grade and a very cool signed 1973 convention program

 

 

Awesome I am TOS and TAS zombie.  Grew up with both.  

[lou_fine]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:46 PM, szavisca said:

On 11/15/2018 at 2:41 PM, lou_fine said:

You must mean like this Police Comics #1 which managed to fetched $9K or more than triple condition guide price:

 

 

Seems to be substantially higher than where it has been selling for in the recent past.  But then again, this copy here seems to present much better than its assigned CGC 5.5 grade from what I can see on the front cover.  Unless they are whacking it for the pronounced and heavy dust shadow on the back cover which is supposedly the kind of defect which they did not used to grade as harsh for in the past before.  

 

 

The Billy Wright cgc 8.0 went for 12k about a year and a half  ago and that marked the last time anyone got this book at a bargain price.

Since then its been a 3-4 times guide book consistently even in very low grade.  You probably missed the voldy 1.8 slightly brittle going last weekend on HA for 4.2k... so this result was no surprise.

First appearance of Plastic Man and unsexy Quality  Phantom Lady... this has for years been a severely undervalued GA key only now getting it’s due.  I imagine it’s the terrible cover that’s held it back for so long.

Wow, good to hear that the sentiment for Police Comics 1 has turned more positive as of late.  Especially since I feel that it has been an much under appreciated book in the grand scheme of things for the longest while.

It's hard to beat the origin and first appearance of a strong and long lasting character like Plastic Man by one of the GA greats.  And to top it off, you also get the first appearance of Phantom Lady in a much more earlier and conservative version of her costume before Matt baker grabbed the artistic reins and came up with a much sexier and classic risque version.  

[lou_fine]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:25 PM, atomised said:

I'll check in with a book I picked up today.  I was pretty deep in the bidding on the Flash 1 4.0.  I think someone got a real nice copy at a more than fair price.

Congrats on the pickup of an early and truly key Fox book and a copy with a front cover here that certainly presents beautifully relative to its assigned grade.  

[tth2]

16 hours ago, sagii said:

...Wonder if Hakes affected HA yesterday a little (if at all) 

Doesn't seem like it to me.  The items I was following on Hakes all went well below what they would've sold for on Heritage.

Unless the consignor is Steve Geppi, I simply can't understand why anyone would consign comics or comic OA to Hakes. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by tth2

[tth2]

10 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

It is interesting to see the varying viewpoints on this particular auction. I felt the prices were very strong, even on those books that were relisted from sales only a few months ago.

I agree.  

[Cat-Man_America]

32 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Doesn't seem like it to me.  The items I was following on Hakes all went well below what they would've sold for on Heritage.

Unless the consignor is Steve Geppi, I simply can't understand why anyone would consign comics or comic OA to Hakes. 

I almost fell asleep looking through the Hakes lots. The coffee pot in my wheelhouse was empty.

[Cat-Man_America]

13 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

I think this phenomena is something we are all becoming too complacent with. We should be very careful not to let the large prices some folks are willing to pay on esoteric books sway us into justifying a heavy expenditure on an otherwise insignificant issue. It is interesting to see the varying viewpoints on this particular auction. I felt the prices were very strong, even on those books that were relisted from sales only a few months ago.

True, but isn't understanding bidding rationale more of an art than a science?  For instance, what's esoteric to one collector may be squarely in another's wheelhouse, and likewise, what seems insignificant today may not be tomorrow.  

There are collectors who buy to complete runs, or seek specific characters, genres, topical interests, specific artists, quality or types of art, certain grades (high & low), first issues, origins or appearances, ...you name it.  This may be more true for GA than other eras, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.  As final hammer prices go, to me they seemed stronger in some areas than others (butthurt-wise, not so much, which may be why I didn't get shut out).  

The only thing I can say with certainty about any timed auction is that it always comes down to two people and how much more one bidder is willing to pay to snag a trophy than the nearest under-bidder. 

Richard, you're one of the savviest guys I know, so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we're both looking at auction results through the most tactically efficient lenses imaginable. 

[tabcom]

30 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

True, but isn't understanding bidding rationale more of an art than a science? . . 

Not an easy question to answer when the cocaine like effects of dopamine is released with each 'Fair Warning' signal flashed upon the bidder screen.

[sagii]

6 hours ago, tth2 said:

Doesn't seem like it to me.  The items I was following on Hakes all went well below what they would've sold for on Heritage.

Unless the consignor is Steve Geppi, I simply can't understand why anyone would consign comics or comic OA to Hakes. 

I have reasoned also that the comics must belong to Geppi, making money on at least some of his items since most of the killer stuff has been donated to Congress

[comicjack]

6 minutes ago, sagii said:

I have reasoned also that the comics must belong to Geppi, making money on at least some of his items since most of the killer stuff has been donated to Congress

I'm sure you are right about that 

[GoldenPRGuy]

So here is my question for today's auction. Suzie 63 (labeled Edgar Church) is on the block along with all the other Mile High Suzies. It's a 9.0 with lower page quality than the others. But here's the thing... I own the Church copy of 63, 9.4 with White Pages. I know there were a few doubles out there, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't one of them. I've reviewed the original list from Chuck and there is only one. I wonder how CGC goes about giving out these designations. Thoughts?

 

 

[Sqeggs]

4 minutes ago, GoldenPRGuy said:

So here is my question for today's auction. Suzie 63 (labeled Edgar Church) is on the block along with all the other Mile High Suzies. It's a 9.0 with lower page quality than the others. But here's the thing... I own the Church copy of 63, 9.4 with White Pages. I know there were a few doubles out there, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't one of them. I've reviewed the original list from Chuck and there is only one. I wonder how CGC goes about giving out these designations. Thoughts?

 

 

Opened ye olde canne of wormes!

I've had my doubts about a number of the "Church" copies HA has auctioned in recent months.  I raised the issue in a thread -- now long buried -- with respect to mid-grade raw books that seemed unlikely to me to have been ever owned by Edgar.

I think the answer to your question is that CGC has been going by provenance for the books that lack any Church markings. HA received a very large consignment of these books, sent some of them to CGC with the assurance that they were Church copies, and CGC accepted the provenance.

Now a couple of caveats:  Many of the books from this consignment (including most or all of the most important books) clearly are authentic Church copies.  Others might well be, although I don't think we have anything other than the consignor's word for it. 

But I'm pretty sure that other books have been given an incorrect attribution.

When I raised this issue in the other thread, practically nobody responded either out of respect for the consignor or because of indifference.

When I've raised this issue with people off-line, the responses I've received have generally been some variety of, "Eh, none of the iffy books are really key books, so who cares?"

The bottom line for me is that as a result of how this matter was handled by HA and CGC, there will now be an unknown number of books out there with Church labels that actually aren't Edgar's books.

If anyone else has any thoughts or -- better! -- knowledge of what's going on, I'd very much like to hear it,.

[Sqeggs]

One other point:  In the case of your book, the new, probably bogus, Church copy will likely have some adverse effect on the value of your legit Church copy. 

[Mmehdy]

Let the real bargains begin, over 1000 lots today  and some great stuff out there, the auction is almost 10M, my preduction today is close to 11M, several books I have never seen before. On the Church mixup, when you are buying that many comic books you are gonna forget what you got, it does not appear given the condition some of the books were never opened...mixups do occur.

[telerites]

4 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Opened ye olde canne of wormes!

I've had my doubts about a number of the "Church" copies HA has auctioned in recent months.  I raised the issue in a thread -- now long buried -- with respect to mid-grade raw books that seemed unlikely to me to have been ever owned by Edgar.

I think the answer to your question is that CGC has been going by provenance for the books that lack any Church markings. HA received a very large consignment of these books, sent some of them to CGC with the assurance that they were Church copies, and CGC accepted the provenance.

Now a couple of caveats:  Many of the books from this consignment (including most or all of the most important books) clearly are authentic Church copies.  Others might well be, although I don't think we have anything other than the consignor's word for it. 

But I'm pretty sure that other books have been given an incorrect attribution.

When I raised this issue in the other thread, practically nobody responded either out of respect for the consignor or because of indifference.

When I've raised this issue with people off-line, the responses I've received have generally been some variety of, "Eh, none of the iffy books are really key books, so who cares?"

The bottom line for me is that as a result of how this matter was handled by HA and CGC, there will now be an unknown number of books out there with Church labels that actually aren't Edgar's books.

If anyone else has any thoughts or -- better! -- knowledge of what's going on, I'd very much like to hear it,.

One of my Nedor Thrillings is labelled as the Church copy and it is likely not.  It has been several years when I saw another graded copy at auction as the Church.  I didn't think multiple copies of books were in the collection but I asked here and it confirmed my thoughts.  I think it was the #73 book since there is a GPA sale of an 8.5 MH copy but I also have #76 as the MH copy.  GPA shows that sale which is most likely when I bought it.  

Looking at HA's site, both of my books were bought raw (not by me) and subbed at some point (not by me).  Both listings say "Based on this copy's provenance, we think it is probably the Mile High copy. ..From the John McLaughlin Collection."

I have subbed books using verification from my purchases off of sites like HA, Worldwide Comics, CC, Metro and CGC has accepted that as enough.  It does add suspicion to the verification process.  

I am showing both books and both may be incorrectly labelled.  BTW, I also have ped copy of my National run that is likely not correct.  I would have to go back and look to see which one - it is not a MH but another ped, I think the Penn. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[batman_fan]

10 hours ago, tth2 said:

Doesn't seem like it to me.  The items I was following on Hakes all went well below what they would've sold for on Heritage.

Unless the consignor is Steve Geppi, I simply can't understand why anyone would consign comics or comic OA to Hakes. 

I know the model I won on Hakes came from the bid I placed the day it opened.  I didn't really look again until I got the winning email.