Previews vs. First Appearance - Introducing RULE 31.
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Just now, 01TheDude said:

Did it occur to you that I am also "arguing" as an exercise in fun? I suppose that would be impossible. I am always serious. Or are you defending them all in fun as well? This whole thread has gone to the dogs.

I like you. I like the OP. I don't want my friends to fight!

Idk. You seemed serious and I wanted to pour some water on the fire.

The bolded is 100% right...

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Truth be told-- whether the OP was serious or just having fun-- I think someone could possible put a reasonable formula together but the effort involved would most likely be a waste of time. As many have said-- the book is worth what someone will pay for it.

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1 hour ago, 01TheDude said:

Truth be told-- whether the OP was serious or just having fun-- I think someone could possible put a reasonable formula together but the effort involved would most likely be a waste of time. As many have said-- the book is worth what someone will pay for it.

I think that OP was just coming up with an interesting formula that can half-predict sales of certain comics. Thats about it.

2 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

but saying something is a rule is offensive to me

And I don't think ValiantMan meant it was an actual concrete Economical rule. Just making a nice flashy title. 2c

 

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I support Rule 31!

A picture of a character before their appearance (like Beta Ray Bill or others in books like Marvel Age or whatever) is not a first appearance. First preview makes sense and hey, some previews I find interesting. Like all of the early black suit Spidey previews. It adds to the story of that costume. However, paying big bucks for those issue is not of interest to me as a collector. 

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On 5/20/2019 at 5:40 PM, masterlogan2000 said:

I just worry that someone will take these numbers and run with them as if it were the law of the land or use it as definitive proof to argue their point against preview books.  The comics market is a much more complex animal than this.

14 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

I support Rule 31!

A picture of a character before their appearance (like Beta Ray Bill or others in books like Marvel Age or whatever) is not a first appearance.

This is exactly the concern that I had.  The "Rule" itself is being used to justify arguments regarding previews/first appearances.  The "Rule" really has nothing to do with that, and is only an exercise in valuations based on a very limited data set (and again, a dataset that can be considered the exception, not the norm).

The debate and tone here has been serious from the beginning, with multiple thought-out examples, without only one admission to the "Rule" being tongue-in-cheek.  We should establish that this "Rule" IS NOT and CANNOT be an actual rule, and that this is simply an exercise to anecdotally relate valuations to a small subset of books with their CGC submission counts.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, masterlogan2000 said:

This is exactly the concern that I had.  The "Rule" itself is being used to justify arguments regarding previews/first appearances.  The "Rule" really has nothing to do with that, and is only an exercise in valuations based on a very limited data set (and again, a dataset that can be considered the exception, not the norm).

The debate and tone here has been serious from the beginning, with multiple thought-out examples, without only one admission to the "Rule" being tongue-in-cheek.  We should establish that this "Rule" IS NOT and CANNOT be an actual rule, and that this is simply an exercise to anecdotally relate valuations to a small subset of books with their CGC submission counts.

 

The real Rule 31: Only after you've convinced the majority of people who've been in the hobby for at least 5 years that More Fun Comics #31 is the first appearance of Superman may you ever refer to any advertisement as a first appearance.

Edited by Lazyboy

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WTB More Fun Comics #31 lol oops wrong thread, but maybe I do hmmm hm hm

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7 hours ago, masterlogan2000 said:

I can honestly say I have no horse in this race, but am now thinking of loading up on a bunch of More Fun Comics #31.

You better hurry because the first WTB thread has already started.  :whee:

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Posted (edited)

Rule 45: Nothing which has ever happened before in this hobby matters, decades of history mean nothing, and up until now the hobby has been completely wrong. Whatever book is being sold is the first appearance of any character the seller claims, no exceptions, anyone using demonstrable facts is a liar, wrong, and pushing fake news. It's time to make the hobby great again.

:wink:

Edited by valiantman

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:40 AM, valiantman said:

A simple solution to the "preview" vs. "first appearance" problem would be to take the definition back to the beginning AND to reflect the actual market.

This "preview" of Action Comics #1 appeared in More Fun Comics #31

 they need to first correct the market for More Fun Comics #31 and Action Comics #1

 

I agree with this , at the same time I will have to see your More Fun Comics #1 and raise it with an even closer related , yet just the same, has not sold at the same premium for a comparable grade Action Comics #1 Ashcan. Basically same book. Same first appearance.  Ashcan is rarer, still market and personal choice of the consumer drive the regular Action Comics #1 higher . I know this isn't the same comparison of preview vs 1st app and more of an apples to apples but the point is no matter how we or the rest of the hobby see it , people have their own feeling on what value is and it is only worth what someone will pay for it. 

 

 

20190620_022223.jpg

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On 5/25/2019 at 10:54 AM, valiantman said:

Rule 45

It's time to make the hobby great again.

:wink:

These statements have been endorsed by the Valiant efforts of one man striving to Make Comics Great Again! 

I agree and second Rule 45 ! :golfclap:

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9 hours ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I agree with this , at the same time I will have to see your More Fun Comics #1 and raise it with an even closer related , yet just the same, has not sold at the same premium for a comparable grade Action Comics #1 Ashcan. Basically same book. Same first appearance.  Ashcan is rarer, still market and personal choice of the consumer drive the regular Action Comics #1 higher . I know this isn't the same comparison of preview vs 1st app and more of an apples to apples but the point is no matter how we or the rest of the hobby see it , people have their own feeling on what value is and it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

??? I don't think you understand Ashcans.

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1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

??? I don't think you understand Ashcans.

How so ? I wasn't comparing this to the preview. I was just starting that this Ashcan is also the first appearance of superman, and technically earlier than the traditional Action Comics # 1 , yet like the preview does not command the same premium as the  Action Comics  # 1.

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6 minutes ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I was just starting that this Ashcan is also the first appearance of superman

Okay. Now I know you don't understand Ashcans.

You might want to go do some research.

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15 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Okay. Now I know you don't understand Ashcans.

You might want to go do some research.

I stand corrected.  I know the cover was originally intended for detective comics , but thought there was still a story on the interior containing superman. Which is wrong. My apology for sharing my misunderstanding of ashcans. Thank you Lazyboy for the education! 

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