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Steve Borock says CGC cases need to be changed every 8-10 years
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Started by Mikey C,

221 posts in this topic

Number 6

Number 6

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

Love your Quick Draw avatar. I think Borock is correct in that Cgc slabs should be changed out every 8 years. Have seen 1950s comics with fragile spines and creamy paper have the spine almost disintegrate while in the slab. One would only notice if one cracked the comic out (to choke * read) though.

But would the wear-and-tear of shipping back and for to CGC and the additional handling of being re-holdered really have been any better for that book?

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mattn792

mattn792

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1 hour ago, Mikey C said:

Last night Steve Borock went onto Economics in Comics YouTube channel (the most immature 'influencer' on YT). Steve mentioned how CBCS cases are one-and-done / never need reslabbing and that CGC cases have to be changed out every 8-10 years because they don't let the book "breathe". I was taken back because I never heard this and he quickly moved on to something else. Has anyone heard this before? Is Steve correct?

So let's recap - per Borock, company Borock used to be affiliated with substandard, company Borock now affiliated with superior.

GTFOH.

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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15 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

So let's recap - per Borock, company Borock used to be affiliated with substandard, company Borock now affiliated with superior.

GTFOH.

I thought oxygen was one of the catalysts needed to begin the degrading process. Like with everything else. But I supposed a hermetically sealed book wouldn't make it either.

I have changed jobs before when a company stopped meeting MY expectations or took a hard right and sacrificed quality and integrity to allow for unheard of cash flow. Maybe that's what Borock did. Sometimes, employees care more about the product or message than money. Especially when they aren't getting raises and/or recognition.

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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20 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

So let's recap - per Borock, company Borock used to be affiliated with substandard, company Borock now affiliated with superior.

The Clear Choice™

lol 

Edited by Jeffro.
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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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For myself and I'm sure many other collectors, mylar and a backing board is just fine. I can read and as long as I can, I can determine the grade of a given book to a "high/low" number most times. My only real concern is detecting big time resto. Which it seems to me is one of the bigger reasons the grading companies were formed. If I can detect resto, why do I need a middle man determining the value of my books?

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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14 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

For myself and I'm sure many other collectors, mylar and a backing board is just fine. I can read and as long as I can, I can determine the grade of a given book to a "high/low" number most times. My only real concern is detecting big time resto. Which it seems to me is one of the bigger reasons the grading companies were formed. If I can detect resto, why do I need a middle man determining the value of my books?

Huh? Aren't they all gem mint?

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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

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Agreed, they have the absolute worst online experience. 

Exchanging information from peers is terrible, let alone contacting the company directly. 

It's like a 90s electronic noteboard without the ability to effectively browse old posts.

There is zero memory retention there, basically making their forums useless. It's like not allowing writing for the sake of communication and development, like Stargate

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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21 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Huh? Aren't they all gem mint?

Sure. If I'm buying. It's when I go to sell the problems begin. It was long ago, in a world without grading companies. but I met a guy at a LCS to sell some books and among them was a Bat 232.

I wanted $40 for it. It was a beauty. He got to that, paused, then sneered a little. "Waddaya want for this?"

"$40".

"No way, man NO. WAY."

"Fine. Take your hands off it."

"Hey, Ma-a-a-aan! You needed to learn how to price your books! I'll give you $20 for it."

I stood up, picked up all my books and headed for the door. He called me back and gave me what I was asking for all of them. My books are rats when I am selling but 9.9 when I am buying.

 

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Qalyar

Qalyar

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Posted

I don't consider Borock's opinion here to be reliable, because he has a vested financial interest in his current company. In any case, neither company has hermetically sealed cases (nor should they). And, in fact, there's very little distinguishing CGC cases from CBCS cases from the standpoint of a archival chemist. Books can still deteriorate after encapsulation because time is still the enemy of paper, especially if not kept in controlled conditions. In fact, some of the processes of paper decomposition (in particular, the oxidative decomposition of lignin) are autocatalytic.

Absent some sort of suboptimal environmental exposure or damage to the slab, the only chemical motivation for scheduled reslabbing would be to refresh the microchamber paper to combat the acid hydrolysis of cellulose and lignin. CBCS does not have some "magic" form of microchamber paper that is immune to saturation. But, honestly, storage conditions matter more for most books than renewing the microchamber paper. I'd only consider scheduled reslabbing (with the consummate risks from transportation) on books especially prone to acid hydrolysis (high-lignin paper already demonstrating some signs of acid, oxidative, or photocatalytic decay -- in other words, primarily GA books with lower page quality). And even then, I'm not sure the dangers of physical stress from shipment aren't a bigger concern.

33 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

For myself and I'm sure many other collectors, mylar and a backing board is just fine. I can read and as long as I can, I can determine the grade of a given book to a "high/low" number most times. My only real concern is detecting big time resto. Which it seems to me is one of the bigger reasons the grading companies were formed. If I can detect resto, why do I need a middle man determining the value of my books?

I don't want to imply that you aren't capable of accurately grading your own books. On the other hand, just about everyone can claim to be accurate graders of books; not everyone, well, is. One of the primary advantages of 3rd party encapsulation is that the book receives a grade from a recognized, neutral agency. That doesn't mean all the grades are perfect, because no system of grading will ever be flawless (and no human process without human error), but it means that a neutral party with a demonstrable history of expertise, has made a grading determination. That doesn't mean it is sacrosanct, but at a minimum, it is free of transactional bias; the books I want to buy and the books I want to sell are graded without regard to that exchange.

A lot of collectors don't care. Which is also fine. Collecting is about choosing the books you want to collect, and the way you want to collect them.

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JazzMan

JazzMan

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8 minutes ago, IronMan_Cave said:

Many of the pedigree books survived 4-5 decades in NM condition just being wrapped with papers and stored properly

Edgar Church had them stacked from floor to ceiling without anything covering them except for other comics.  It goes to show you that it's the storage conditions that affect the comics to a greater degree than the packaging around them.

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InfantTerrible

InfantTerrible

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7 minutes ago, JazzMan said:

Edgar Church had them stacked from floor to ceiling without anything covering them except for other comics.  It goes to show you that it's the storage conditions that affect the comics to a greater degree than the packaging around them.

Exactly....

check out the latest pedigree story here, Chinatown pedigree, the books were not even wrapped at all, they were found in the kitchen cupboards in the basement

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/8508/

and here are some samples of the GA books, they are near pristine

 

 

 

Edited by IronMan_Cave
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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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27 minutes ago, JazzMan said:

Edgar Church had them stacked from floor to ceiling without anything covering them except for other comics.  It goes to show you that it's the storage conditions that affect the comics to a greater degree than the packaging around them.

Yeah. A cool, dry darkish environment. Don't use them as flyswatters. Treat them gently.

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Larryw7

Larryw7

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1 minute ago, shadroch said:

It's amazing how dumb and dishonest he got after leaving everyone's favorite company.

Yeah, right? The same guy who everyone here loved for years. He's actually the same nice guy he's always been.

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