General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[skypinkblu]

1 minute ago, DR.X said:

First of all you forgot to call me last night and give me Shannon's number. Second, make sure you never play me in Trivia pursuit. I'll destroy you.

You can't even remember what you ate for breakfast;) AND she's too young for you, lol.

[Naphtha]

Isn't it also a buyer's incentive to not want the sale price listed? In some cases yes, but in others where they are getting a good deal they would definitely want to keep that information to themselves. There's just too many variables to accurately keep an aggregate on raw sales. GPA is limiting already with sales tax now thrown in and ebay coupons.

[Ricksneatstuff]

39 minutes ago, manetteska said:

How do you think “sold by PM” sales will go as far as reporting? That’s a good portion of GA sales. Think 50% reported? More/less?

I think close to 50% of my sales are by PM.  People put together a package buy offer or want some time payments or in some cases just don’t want their purchase Made public. 

I would probably not get around to reporting all of my sales into a database.  I have trouble enough remembering to make invoices.  

It almost needs to be someone separate doing it who has a motivation to do so, like an extension of GPA or GoCollect. 

Also, I think your topic of conversation is fair and that is what these boards are for.  I have no ill will regarding it. I welcome any form of criticism if it is rational and able to be reasonably discussed.  

[skypinkblu]

15 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I think close to 50% of my sales are by PM.  People put together a package buy offer or want some time payments or in some cases just don’t want their purchase Made public. 

I would probably not get around to reporting all of my sales into a database.  I have trouble enough remembering to make invoices.  

It almost needs to be someone separate doing it who has a motivation to do so, like an extension of GPA or GoCollect. 

Also, I think your topic of conversation is fair and that is what these boards are for.  I have no ill will regarding it. I welcome any form of criticism if it is rational and able to be reasonably discussed.  

That would make sense. I'm not sure it would be worth their time though.

[crassus]

1 hour ago, DR.X said:

1 hour ago, skypinkblu said:

I've always had  a good memory for minutia. I used to remember page numbers, I was really good at trivial pursuit;) ...but let me walk into a store with a shopping list...I don't even remember where I put the list;) It's getting worse as I get older, lol. Now I don't remember the page numbers or the lists;)

First of all you forgot to call me last night and give me Shannon's number. Second, make sure you never play me in Trivia pursuit. I'll destroy you.

Go easy on Sha, remember she's getting older...

[skypinkblu]

10 minutes ago, crassus said:

Go easy on Sha, remember she's getting older...

YES! I should get discounts,

[Bird]

33 minutes ago, crassus said:

Go easy on Sha, remember she's getting older...

and Dr. X is getting larger!

 

[thehumantorch]

6 hours ago, manetteska said:

6 hours ago, Pontoon said:

So, the gripe is the book sold on ebay and now a seller here is asking more money? Who is the seller? Where is the thread?

That is the nuts-and-bolts, yes, but there is more nuance to it.

I understand "a seller can put any price he/she wants on a book, etc etc" and that is not my point. I also understand he is not the only one to use the boards in this way but he specifically has caught my attention multiple times across multiple pre-boards venues.

The idea of the boards as a "community" is no longer relevant, but situations like this turn members here into pure dollar signs.

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/447354-new-books-now-frazetta-baker-schomburg-cole-decarlo-action-batman-joker-cover-science-fiction-gga-crime/?do=findComment&comment=10586009

With all due respect, you're calling out a seller who's done nothing wrong according to board rules or rules in any marketplace.

I feel your frustration with all the wheeling and dealing and flipping but that's how the hobby has evolved, there's money to be made and a good portion of board members are looking for under-priced books and books they can make money on.  Witness all the threads devoted to spotting market trends and hot books, threads devoted to finding deals at garage sales or flea markets or in $1 boxes, and all the board sales threads.  Do you really think most guys here wouldn't snap up a book they could flip for a 50% or $500 profit?   

For Rick to do what he does he's clearly spending a lot of time searching out under-priced books, he clearly understands the GGA market better than most or all of us because I guarantee you that there are dozens or hundreds of guys watching ebay and every other market for deals, he's taking risk buying books on ebay and he's willing to do the work listing them here and shipping them.  

 

 

[entalmighty1]

10 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

With all due respect, you're calling out a seller who's done nothing wrong according to board rules or rules in any marketplace.

I feel your frustration with all the wheeling and dealing and flipping but that's how the hobby has evolved, there's money to be made and a good portion of board members are looking for under-priced books and books they can make money on.  Witness all the threads devoted to spotting market trends and hot books, threads devoted to finding deals at garage sales or flea markets or in $1 boxes, and all the board sales threads.  Do you really think most guys here wouldn't snap up a book they could flip for a 50% or $500 profit?   

For Rick to do what he does he's clearly spending a lot of time searching out under-priced books, he clearly understands the GGA market better than most or all of us because I guarantee you that there are dozens or hundreds of guys watching ebay and every other market for deals, he's taking risk buying books on ebay and he's willing to do the work listing them here and shipping them.  

 

 

Well stated. 

[Bird]

10 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

With all due respect, you're calling out a seller who's done nothing wrong according to board rules or rules in any marketplace.

I feel your frustration with all the wheeling and dealing and flipping but that's how the hobby has evolved, there's money to be made and a good portion of board members are looking for under-priced books and books they can make money on.  Witness all the threads devoted to spotting market trends and hot books, threads devoted to finding deals at garage sales or flea markets or in $1 boxes, and all the board sales threads.  Do you really think most guys here wouldn't snap up a book they could flip for a 50% or $500 profit?   

For Rick to do what he does he's clearly spending a lot of time searching out under-priced books, he clearly understands the GGA market better than most or all of us because I guarantee you that there are dozens or hundreds of guys watching ebay and every other market for deals, he's taking risk buying books on ebay and he's willing to do the work listing them here and shipping them.  

 

 

Your calling out a poster who has done nothing wrong according to board rule's...et cetera et cetera.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Bird
maybe I just like to argue too much, providing a mirror to other's actions

[manetteska]

11 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

19 hours ago, manetteska said:

19 hours ago, Pontoon said:

So, the gripe is the book sold on ebay and now a seller here is asking more money? Who is the seller? Where is the thread?

That is the nuts-and-bolts, yes, but there is more nuance to it.

I understand "a seller can put any price he/she wants on a book, etc etc" and that is not my point. I also understand he is not the only one to use the boards in this way but he specifically has caught my attention multiple times across multiple pre-boards venues.

The idea of the boards as a "community" is no longer relevant, but situations like this turn members here into pure dollar signs.

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/447354-new-books-now-frazetta-baker-schomburg-cole-decarlo-action-batman-joker-cover-science-fiction-gga-crime/?do=findComment&comment=10586009

With all due respect, you're calling out a seller who's done nothing wrong according to board rules or rules in any marketplace.

I feel your frustration with all the wheeling and dealing and flipping but that's how the hobby has evolved, there's money to be made and a good portion of board members are looking for under-priced books and books they can make money on.  Witness all the threads devoted to spotting market trends and hot books, threads devoted to finding deals at garage sales or flea markets or in $1 boxes, and all the board sales threads.  Do you really think most guys here wouldn't snap up a book they could flip for a 50% or $500 profit?   

For Rick to do what he does he's clearly spending a lot of time searching out under-priced books, he clearly understands the GGA market better than most or all of us because I guarantee you that there are dozens or hundreds of guys watching ebay and every other market for deals, he's taking risk buying books on ebay and he's willing to do the work listing them here and shipping them.  

To clarify:

I never said the seller violated any board rules. I am not sour about people selling for more money than they purchased an item for. That is how the hobby -- and the world -- works. I purchased several items from you when you acquired the large Steranko/Fanzine/Magazine collection. I have no doubt the price I paid (which I did happily) was more than you paid (once broken down to a per-item level).

I stated I saw (repeated) behavior from a board member -- noting the 50% markup -- and that I would not do business with that seller again. I did not disclose any names. I was asked for more information, publicly, not through PMs. This led me to believe people were interested in this topic. By providing evidence it follows the seller would be identified.

My opinion:

The seller says a lot about the hobby and the community but his actions don't follow suit. The seller purchased a book in a very public, open manner for $900 (i.e. FMV), decided it was not good enough for him (his own words), so he listed it as a "board exclusive" for $1350. He purchased a book off another board member then put it up for sale on the boards (at a markup of course) a week later. And more examples.

I remember feathers ruffled when items from the Jon Berk collection were quickly back up for sale. I also believe if this was an ASM 300 bought on eBay for $400 then listed here for $600 a week later by a random boardie there would be "call outs". Perhaps it is the allure of Cool Books which makes this seller above others.

[comicdonna]

I remember a boardie purchasing an Action #10 for $200 on ebay and selling it for 20K.  I hope that happens to me one day.  

[october]

I think people are taking a few shots at Rick mostly out of general frustration with the market, price inflation, voracious competition, and maybe a little butthurt on missing the boat when books were "cheap". I get that. I really do. That said, Rick hasn't done anything wrong that I am aware of. He buys a book and sells a book. He might be a little....schizophrenic....when it comes to what's in his collection vs his inventory, but I you can't say he doesn't have a passion for the source material. He also knows the GGA Gold market niche better than anyone I am aware of. He has essentially created demand for certain books, and I don't say that in a bad way. He has a good eye for cool, overlooked stuff and brings it to the attention of the boards/Instagram/whatever. There are several issues that are on my radar because of him.  

The quick flip isn't always the best look, but it's where we are in the comic market right now. 

[Bird]

1 minute ago, october said:

The quick flip isn't always the best look

You clearly do not mean this comment as a shot at Rick, so why take the comments of "people" in that vein? (I know the answer actually, fundamental attribution error and such). Rick has been nice to me and I appreciate the advice he has given when I once sought him out for that purpose. You can hate the game but not the playa! Also, just because something is not wrong don't make it right. People are inconsistent by definition and you, me, Rick and everyone else here are inconsistent in our beliefs at times and we may even have contradictory opinions about the same subject at the same time. Rick seemed to generally take the comments in this discussion without "butthurt" and said something along the lines of the fact that it was a fair topic to be discussed. One disservice is making it only about his behavior and no one elses another is to consider the subject taboo even if generally done respectfully.

I am a flipper. I flip comics that I buy cheaply for more than I paid. I buy many for that reason and that reason alone so that I can keep some. That doesn't mean that I don't see fault in that type of behavior (I suffer from the fundamental attribution error as well as the next guy) when the dollar amounts get a bit crazy.  When higher dollar amounts are involved perceptions change. And people can have different opinions as well without getting labeled or getting the pitchforks out. Case in point, that AF15 that went from $21K in a purple label to $100K+ in a blue label - lots of varied opinions on that. Discussion about sale, especially in the general discussion thread about sales, should be welcomed and encouraged when done respectfully. But we all draw lines in different places. (I was asked about an earlier comment in a PM and still would only allude to who I was talking about!)

 

[path4play]

It’s called arbitrage, and Rick is pretty good at it.  I admire him.  I think it was in the Gerber photo journals that I read Gerber actually paid for his collection from the profits on books he sold.  So maybe we have some “recency bias” and this is not as new a thing as it appears.  Given the readily available data on sales prices these day, such arbitrage is even harder than the good ole days. 

Perhaps if we change the label of collector to dealer it makes more sense?  I too like the camaraderie and concept of the message board exchanging good will with other collectors. I prefer to offer here before selling elsewhere.  But conduct a little experiment.  Pass on some good deals on the sales thread and see how fast they are scooped up – then note that 80% of the sales went to 20% (3-4) of the buyers.  It’s not even possible to share all good will evenly among members (interesting idea – make the rules of a sales thread limit 2 per buyer – or mandatory 6 hr. wait time?).  Some will go to collectors, some will show up for sale again (and again...).  Heck if there was no flip'n going on, there would be slim pickin's indeed.  Its cover vs. inside stories; slab vs. un-slabbed; pressed vs. non-pressed. I think its great we all enjoy the same hobby and healthy for the hobby that there are differences in everyone’s approach.

Edited March 2, 2019 by path4play

[Mijael.Levy]

.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Mijael.Levy

[Point Five]

Hi everyone, my name is Point Five and I'm a comic flipper. 

 

[Point Five]

I will now take your questions. Yes, in the back. First time? Probably that Miller Daredevil back in 1985 to my buddy at school. Cleared $1.75 on that. From there, long slippery slope to the harder stuff. Planets. Bakers. The occasional (oh god) ASM 129. I craved the rush and did whatever I had to do to get it. It actually feels good to admit it. OK, no further questions please. But I just want to say one more thing: I love America. Thank you. 

[path4play]

Interesting thought experiment.

Say I have 10 nice GGA golden age books that I got a good deal on a couple of years back for $100 each.  Being a good fellow, and willing to share my good fortune with the community, I decide to offer them up on the boards.

Good Samaritan scenario A: I consider a 50% gain reasonable for me and a nice buy for board members so I post them one by one for $150 each.  Result: they are snapped up in seconds by 2-3 different buyers to disappear into a hoard or be flipped and I’ve made a tidy $500 to buy another comic.

Bad flipper scenario B: I find based on prior sales the books are “hot” and have 5x the current market value I originally paid.  I post them one by one for $500 each.  Result: they are carefully purchased to be cherished by 10 different buyers over the days members check in.  The comics fill holes in runs or build on desirable portions of a members collection. The sales have re-affirmed the books values among other collectors and I’ve made a tidy $4,000 to buy more comics.

Which scenario is healthier and better for the comic community?

Edited March 2, 2019 by path4play

[skypinkblu]

We've always had flippers here, just not at such a  furious pace. For years I rarely slabbed a book, never pressed one. I'd sell some here and there (mostly after owning them for years, but not always), sell them at a "reasonable markup" close to your 1st scenario, only to see some people scarf them up press and reflip them sometimes very quickly.

It took me a while to absorb the fact that while I was trying to be a purist, some other people were taking advantage.  So after a bunch of years, I started having some of my books pressed and slabbed. Then I had more pressed and slabbed. I still own a fair amount that were never pressed (even slabs), but the percentage is lower every year. I also look at completed sales and GPA and a few other sites and I ask people before listing anything that I think might be worth more than I thought.

Some things evolve, I guess. None of my raw books are pressed, but I have less raw books lately than I had.

If someone wants to flip and they are open about it,  there are certainly no real rules broken. But a few of the flippers (and some of them are "nice" people) have asked  me if they could buy books for their "collection".Price point requests usually go with the "collection".  If you ask for something for your collection, the collection should last more than 5 minutes.

So I've changed, I'll sell books to people who love to resell in any of my sales threads, but I've shied away from selling anything else, unless it's to someone I feel I know really well. I've stopped answering WTB ads for the most part, same reason ...unless it's a book I had planned to sell. I used to think that I was helping people the way some had helped me find books I needed to fill runs, but I had a not great experience once, where the book was up on eBay at 4 or 5 times the price the next week and that cured me.

I also try not to buy from people who seem to love flipping. I try to avoid their ads. I'm not saying I never will, there is that "cool books " thing and I don't know that I could resist if the book on my not too long list of must haves shows up, but I try not to. Because as I said before, people would not flip quickly if no one bought from them.

My other issue is as I've said before, the hidden price thing.  I absolutely understand PM buyers asking not to post, I do that all the time, but if it's an out there sale, I don't see a great reason not to leave the info here. I can only see reasons that I'm not comfortable with so  for my own sales, so I leave mine up.  

Anyway, in short, things evolve.

Edited March 2, 2019 by skypinkblu
extra word